On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 3:52 PM Joshua Peisach <itzswirlz2...@outlook.com> wrote: > Jeremy, > > UCR has been around for 3 years. Plan since day 0, when I went on discourse > and brought up the idea was flavor. > > There have been reasons I've been so hesitant to reach out - these dang > barriers. Again, for you and current devs it doesn't matter but for community > members it is essentially impossible to move forward. > > "Escalation" - I've wanted to apply for PPU status to get my packages into > universe but other roadblocks keeps popping up. For example, the Debian > cinnamon maintainer left Debian and me and Fabio fantoni as aforementioned, > we both deserve rights but we don't get that. The only escalation that has > been happening is that Erich decided to help me and upload the > ubuntucinnamon-* packages to universe. But the directions are still unclear > as to what to do. Should a germinate seed be in Launchpad before or after > applying to flavor status? When it says "one or more developer with upload > rights" what does the at mean? You already have upload rights. I don't. > > And to say that "oh we are using the community council and you're being > unfair to the TB", we are just trying to figure out what we are supposed to > do. > > You could say "oh just apply for status" but trying to find those places of > contribution can be difficult and it feels very rare to see someone new come > in and get their dev membership nowadays, especially one who isn't already a > member. > > And to top it off, make requests for improvements individually? Currently I > am silenced. Nobody cares if I say a thing; in general, I get ghosted anyways > or treated as if I'm dumb. To many, my input doesn't matter and if I were to > email TB right now they would probably not respond, or not even let my email > go through the mailing list. > > I know I sound very harsh - but check my application page. And look at Ubuntu > Cinnamon and Unity and their community. If you want to make a distro where we > embrace community, put your company paychecks aside and make it happen. We > want this. The community wants this. And we aren't letting this stop us and > we will not be silenced. > > If you truly believe that I need to be a core dev, then you are saying any > community member who wants to create a flavor needs to spend YEARS getting to > that high of privilege. And that is not community friendly at all. I am a > student, and I'm going to a magnet school in September (a CS school might I > add). School is going to get more intense and I'm not going to be spending 6 > hours a day on Ubuntu development. > > Again, to you this is hard to understand because you already **have** the > upload rights. > > Truly, with honesty, > -Josh
Josh, Thank you for emailing. Background --------------- Let me try to briefly summarize my story. I am not doing this to brag, but to try to communicate that I've been where you are. I didn't join Canonical until January of this year. The vast majority of my contributions to Ubuntu were done as a volunteer community member. It took me a long time to see myself as a Developer because I didn't have a traditional computer science education or paid work experience. Related to that, I usually took too long to apply for memberships and upload rights. I became an Ubuntu Member in 2011. By the time I applied I was more than qualified and was told I could have used the Contributing Developer process instead. I didn't know that. I joined Ubuntu Desktop (an uploading team) later that year and I joined MOTU the next year. Ubuntu GNOME became an official flavor for 13.04. The other co-founder of Ubuntu GNOME, Tim Lunn, who was Technical Lead for a couple years when I wasn't able to, never joined MOTU or Core Dev. It's not required to join those teams to be a Technical Lead for an official Ubuntu flavor. But there needs to be a plan for at least one developer to get PPU upload rights for your flavor's essential packages. I eventually got Debian Developer and Ubuntu Core status in 2017. But I should have applied for those sooner. Because I waited too long, I try to encourage others to apply sooner. You do not need years of work to get the upload rights you need. It is generally interpreted as 6 months of work. Therefore, I believe you more than qualify for the Ubuntu upload rights you need. Oh and I wanted to contribute to Ubuntu for years but it wasn't until 2011 that I figured out where I could use my skills to make a difference. Help ------ Your PPU application [1] needs more endorsements. I'll write one for you this week. I think you should include all the Debian Cinnamon packages in your team's packageset (except for libtimezonemap since that's a shared component). I think the biggest thing you've been missing earlier in your Ubuntu contributions is a mentor to help you reach your full potential in Ubuntu and along the way, get the uploader status and memberships you deserve. I volunteer to help you with that. We should also get you upload rights in Debian. I want to help you with that too. There is a need in Ubuntu to have a better mentorship/sponsorship process so that other people like you don't get neglected. I know that Canonical has been investing more in Community recently so I'm hoping Canonical's Community team can help improve this area. Apology ---------- I apologize that my earlier email in this thread came across as dismissive. I only meant to suggest that action from the Community Council seemed too aggressive to me based on the immediate context of the very recent email starting the Official Flavor process. I didn't mean to target you or ignore your concerns or Erich's concerns. There clearly was deeper context that wasn't apparent from the initial Official Flavor email or its reply. I don't believe you were wrong to talk to Erich or anyone else on the Community Council. I am deeply troubled by your feeling that your voice isn't being heard. I personally strongly appreciate the sustained work you have been doing. You are intelligent. Your work matters and your input is important. I want to do my part to help you feel valued too. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/itzswirlz/Applications/UbuntuCinnamonPPUApplication Thank you, Jeremy -- Ubuntu-release mailing list Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release
