Thanks Ben, but that doesn't extend to technical standards that OR specify
- multicast is a good example.

Why can't BT actually telegraph what they are doing? Or do I have to guess
the SIN document, again?



On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 12:21 AM Sean Keeney <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Apologies to all - but I could condense this into a simple sentence:
>
> "Why can't the biggest ISP and backbone in the UK provide technical
> leadership at every level"?
>
> Why aren't YOU as a company doing this up front? Why do I, as a lowly
> grunt, have to work out what the oracle is saying? I know 10x less than you
> do - why can't you disseminate this information, when you're trying to sell
> me a connection?
>
> I complain about the home stuff - but this extends to the work stuff where
> I earn my money - and again, I work in places where they spend hundreds of
> thousands each month on private circuits from you. Why should I trust you
> when your technical people know nothing about fibre, and this lack of
> knowledge or interest extends to endpoints?
>
> Andrews and Arnold are expensive - but crikey, look at them on Twitter - I
> even used their help to sort out my BT problems. Why can't BT do that? A
> couple of blogs are cheap.
>
> BT have a structural problem, you're not a part of it, but the hatred of
> the way your company operates is only going to accelerate having the two
> halves of BT separated.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 11:59 PM Sean Keeney <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 11:28 PM Neil J. McRae <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I’m not sure where to start on this!
>
> I’m not clear on what community you mean and engagement in a community is
> typically a personal thing, or at least always has been for me.
>
> We have presented at a lot of UKNOF meetings, we have been a patron
> sponsor and hosted a meeting too.
> A quick grep on the RFC ftp site shows us contributing to over 100 RFCs
> and we participate in half a dozen working groups and chair a couple also
> and I think we have about half a dozen drafts in progress.
> We engage at ETSI in at least six different forums including setting up
> the NFV forum and a few other related forums.
> One of our staff members currently chairs the broadband forum.
> We engage at ITU, EBU and IEEE on standards for loads of technology most
> recently G.FAST
> We have submitted several papers at OFC to make sure fibre can carry the
> traffic we need it to carry in the future:
>         http://www.comsoc.org/ctn/strengthening-backbone-5g-and-beyond
> And a ton of other stuff (including working with Google on a few things)
> We co-hosted the IETF (that’s the Internet Engineering Task Force!) a
> couple of years ago and are set to co-host in 2018 (if it comes to the UK)
>
> With regards to working with other service providers, we participate in
> lots of forums with service providers, in fact we are running a G.FAST
> pilot now where several large service providers are engaged.
>
> So no, we don’t tell you how to config your router we’d much rather do the
> work so you have something to configure on your router in the first place!
>
> From: uknof <[email protected]> on behalf of Sean Keeney <
> [email protected]>
> Date: Monday, 7 November 2016 at 20:54
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: [uknof] Fwd: IPv6 adoption approaching 16% in UK
>
> Apologies - I didn't reply all on this earlier.
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Sean Keeney <[email protected]>
> Date: Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [uknof] IPv6 adoption approaching 16% in UK
> To: Neil J. McRae <[email protected]>
>
> Nothing mighty about the admin bit, and not having a go at you personally.
> It's just the default for this domain I use.
> But - for the largest ISP in the UK, it is hilarious for BT to have a go
> at other ISPs. Unlike AAISP and others I don't see any technical direction
> from BT apart from the occasional SIN document and no engagement in the
> community.
> Again, it's not a go at you personally - but for BT to throw stones, even
> at a company for whom security is a tangential issue, when they act like
> the monopoly they grew out of is ridiculous.
> BT don't act like part of the internet like Facebook and Google do. That's
> my issue.
>
> On 7 Nov 2016 8:16 pm, "Neil J. McRae" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On 7 Nov 2016, at 20:13, Sean Keeney <[email protected]> wrote:
> Good point Neil. It's a bit like the largest incumbent government
> sponsored ISP in the UK not engaging with the community isn't it?
> Ok Sean (oh mighty admin!) I'm biting (again) - what nonsense are you
> going on about now dood?
>
> Regards,
> Neil
>
>
> Thank you, Neil.
>
> As I said you aren't the problem - BT are.They provide my internet, but
> they don't engage.
>
> So.
>
> Where's the documentation on how to provide ipv6 (or even ipv4) in my
> network without using that awful HH? How can I learn to do it properly
> myself before providing it to a customer? Your contract with me (afaik)
> extends to the box at the wall - so, where is the github or wherever that
> gives me the technical details I need to provide this? Where's the nice
> Ubuntu package?
>
> What if my requirements extend to doing something that your HH doesn't do
> - like a local DNS domain?
>
> I reverse engineered your stack for getting IPTV (Sky Sports etc) over
> your multicast network. Why should I need to do this, 4 days of work, why
> isn't the information loud and clear? My Linux box connects to the OR modem
> - who knew i'd have to give the bare connection a fake IP address to be
> able to route multicast from it? Why can't you put this up in advance, so I
> don't need to second guess the largest supplier of internet in the country?
> What are you trying to hide?
>
> Why is your ipv6 allocation non-static? Is there a reason? If so, i'm all
> ears - if it's a good technical reason then fine. If not, then i'll have a
> go. You had an excuse for a non static allocation with ipv4, why can't you
> give me a static allocation with ipv6? If it's difficult then fine but
> PLEASE TELL ME THIS.
>
> Seriously BT act like a black box. You're not, I can always move to Sky,
> which is why I feel bad complaining at you. But the company you work for
> *do not realise* they provide access to the internet and that is all. They
> are not gatekeepers, like they were in the days when we all had to use
> trimphones and had party lines.
>
> Why are BT not leading the way by giving us information we need to get
> people to use BT services?!
>
> As an aside - in my last role at a secure establishment - BT (OR) sent an
> engineer that didn't understand the difference between single and
> multi-mode fibre. This is a company that spend hundreds of thousands a
> month. Don't under estimate the power of word of mouth. This cost us 3 days.
>
> Finally:
>
> 1. Where is your github?
> 2. Where is your best practice?
> 3. Where are your instructions on helping people get the best from the
> connections you provide?
> 4. Where are your clear instructions on DNS servers, NTP, etc? Do I need
> to talk to India again?
>
> Seriously.
>
> /Sean
>
>

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