Tony, What about the homes on Lombard St. and South St. Pine St. etc. in Society Hill that were inhabited by poor black people? Have they benefited from the influx of "middle-class" taxpayers who now inhabit the area?
Did they get better schools, homes or did they move to another place and find themselves in pretty much the same situation? I say yes to the latter. I also agree with Wendy's assertions. On 4/18/08 11:37 PM, "Anthony West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wendy, > > I really appreciate your responses, thanks for taking the trouble. Here > are some heartfelt replies to your sharp-witted points. > > 1 > Moving is always a hassle. But most Americans move many times during > their lives. The rich do it, the poor do it, the folks in between do it. > We can't base the whole city's public policy on condemning the act of > moving. For better or for worse, cities are about movement. That's why > leases have expiration dates: both sides want 'em. > > Moving 6 blocks in 12 years is not a terrible thing to undergo. The > entire "University City gentrification" bugaboo hullabaloo is bogus and > has been bogus for the last 30 years. Gentrification is a real > phenomenon that can pose real problems. But it's small beer around here. > In 1948, there were lots of lower-income residents of University City. > In 2008, there are still lots of lower-income residents of University > City. It was a neighborhood of mixed classes then; it is a neighborhood > of mixed classes now. Congratulations then, you Gentrification Police! > We don't seem to have a big problem here, compared to, say, Manhattan. > > 2 > So since the Sadie school's boundaries obviously aren't big enough > to help every poor kid in West Philly, Penn should aggressively pursue a > policy of helping more schools. People who are opposed to Penn helping > more failing West Philly schools, are not people that honestly care > whether West Philly schools are failing, and they don't honestly care to > see extra educational resources lavished on a working-class Black > community. I disagree with these critics. It's a good thing that Penn is > pumping extra educational resources into West Philly. West Philly needs > all the extra public educational resources it can get. > > 3 > "Real funding, real help" for public schools can only come from > taxpayers who feel invested in those same schools. As Glenn has pointed > out, there is a tremendous gap between the funding of suburban schools > and inner-city schools. So poor Philadelphia schoolkids need more > prosperous, taxpaying middle-class school-users, as fast as we can > possibly attract them to reject the suburbs and settle in the city. If > you don't want to call this "gentrification" -- call it something else > then. Words are cheap. But how can we possibly have healthy inner-city > schools or any healthy inner-city governmental structures, if they > aren't based on a balance of social and economic classes? > > Do the math. Do you disagree with me, Wendy, based on your numbers? > > > -- Tony West > > > > >> Well, this was interesting to read. >> >> Tony, I have to reply to this: >> >> >> >> Actually, it can be a VERY big deal to have to move because you simply >> can't afford to live in the neighborhood you grew up in/bought a home >> in/rent in/go to school in - whatever the reason. Moving itself is >> not a cheap proposition, finding a place you can afford, especially if >> you're on the lower economic scale can be a nightmare. >> >> No, there is no comparing Black Bottom to Darfur. That's beyond >> apples and oranges. But one of our neighbors was directly affected by >> BB and is still paying for her home - after the one she'd been living >> in and raising her children in and was pretty much paid for was taken >> out from under her. >> >> As to not wanting to be left out. Of course no one wants to be left >> out. But that's exactly what happens most of the time when the >> developers/gentrification comes in. Suddenly everything's "luxury" >> and even the places that aren't labeled as such are out of reach for >> the very people who need them. The school situation is the same. >> Not every family can go to the Sadie school. They don't live in the >> "right" part of UC, nor could many of them afford to. >> >> I can't say I have a concrete answer to the problem of urban >> education. I do think the city and state should be more involved with >> funding all schools and get funding out of the hands of private, >> special interest groups. I don't know that we need more special >> "catchment" type schools. Real funding, real help might just help in >> making sure that children have up to date books and supplies without >> teachers having to pay for said supplies out of their own pocket, that >> their schools are safe places and that our teachers are paid a decent >> salary and are treated with the respect they deserve. Parents need to >> be more involved with their children, teaching them at home how to >> behave, helping with homework, making sure their kids even go to >> school, as well as how they're doing in school and what they're doing >> in school. >> >> Wendy >> >> On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Glenn <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >> >> The flower child writes: >> "My '60s ideology is about >> retaining sensitivity to the voices of change. In other words: the >> music >> didn't die, so listen to it now! Think like a festival coordinator." >> >> >> I called Lewis and asked him to book Tony at the 2008 love-in, the >> party for the park. Remember his classic and listen to the music! >> >> >> Come gather round anointed >> Wherever you roam >> And admit that the billions >> Around you have grown >> And accept it that soon >> You'll be sucked to the bone >> If your district to you >> Is worth saving >> Then you better kiss ass >> And you'll stink like a turd >> For the times they are a changin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony West" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> To: "UnivCity listserv" <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 1:54 AM >> Subject: [UC] Re: GREAT ARTICLE >> >> >> I'm sorry, Glenn, but you did miss my point. >> >> I owe nothing to Penn. You owe your millions to Penn. >> >> You do have a '60s ideology and so do I. But your '60s >> ideology is buried in the past and wastes everybody's reading >> time. Your "gentrification" analysis is 30 years out of date >> and doesn't help any of us understand the challenges of 2008. >> My '60s ideology is about retaining sensitivity to the voices >> of change. In other words: the music didn't die, so listen to >> it now! Think like a festival coordinator. >> >> The real question before University City is what kind of >> economic change is likeliest to improve urban education. You >> have shown the major difference between Philadelphia education >> and suburban education is economic: more suburban taxpayers >> are prosperous, so they can afford to spend more, so they buy >> better schools for their kids and everyone else's. >> >> You've published the best argument for gentrification I've >> read in 30 years. Inner-city school systems, you say, are >> suffering because they lack higher-income taxpayers. It's a >> top priority, then, for Philadelphians who care about the >> education of their poor pupils to tempt more prosperous >> residents to Philadelphia. There aren't enough of them now to >> help the poor kids, so we need to entice more of them to move >> into town and help this terribly important project. How should >> we go about this? >> >> Some UC-list people have written it would be very bad for any >> prosperous people to move into West Philadelphia ever, because >> their mere presence constitutes a permanent, terrible wound to >> poor people. Supposedly the poor suffer agonies because of a >> change in local housing prices if, over a 15-year period, they >> wind up shifting from 36th & Chestnut to 36th & Haverford, >> less than a mile away. >> >> As I see it, this is no big deal. The Black Bottom may or may >> not have been justly handled, but it was a far cry from Darfur. >> >> New York City does have major gentrification issues right now >> which I take seriously. Philadelphia's worst gentrification >> woes are to New York's, as a pimple is to skin cancer. We >> can't take any of these UC-list gentrification ruminations >> seriously until the ruminators get a perspective on urban life >> ... which is always about change. Then the community at large, >> including all of us, can have a real, useful discussion about >> class and education and neighborhood and how it all works out >> Until then..... >> >> I don't think prosperity has been as big a threat to the local >> poor as you say it is. Those I talk to do complain about it at >> times; but their larger gripe is with poverty itself, rather >> than with non-poverty. Most of the truly poor don't want to >> kill any goose that might lay a golden egg to get them out of >> poverty. They like the idea of economic development, because >> they really and truly want to get developed. They just don't >> want to get left out. >> >> -- Tony West >> >> >> Glenn wrote: >> >> For the rest ... I read tedious, pompous opinions by >> childless experts, wannabee-teacher experts and >> Penn-is-bad experts. The usual suspects. >> >> >> West, am I getting your point correctly? "Shut up, shut >> up, shut up! I'm ready to defend my master's backroom >> dealings with my usual tactics!" >> >> >> Melani and I posted the link to the research driven >> opinion of the president of the teacher's union. Is he a >> wannabee wanker with a sixities ideology like me? >> >> Also, do Ms Nachmias and Ms Goldman know that you are >> using their names to support your listserv bullying? >> >> West, the tactics you used as leader of the Fiends of >> Clark Park gang don't work as well on a public list. >> People can read your efforts to silence, mislead, and >> bully. They can read the opinioins and questions posted >> by your targets. >> >> As ruler of FOCP and servant of UCD, you had a free pass >> to silence and bully anyone you wished. It must burn you >> up to know that people increasingly realize the truth! >> >> After years of attacking my character, you failed to shut >> me up. Now, when people say, "I didn't believe Glenn's >> stories about the FOCP because I heard all about his bad >> character. But now it seems that the wanker tells the >> truth and the leaders at FOCP and SHCA really do conduct >> themselves shamefully." >> >> This must make you furious! I won't condone your conduct, >> but West, you have my pity. >> >> The wanker >> >> >> >> ---- >> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the >> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive >> information, see >> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>. >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: >> 269.23.0/1383 - Release Date: 4/17/2008 9:00 AM >> >> >> >> ---- >> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the >> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see >> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>. >> >> > > > ---- > You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the > list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see > <http://www.purple.com/list.html>. ---- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see <http://www.purple.com/list.html>.
