as long a the tools can accomplish the same thing then yes. My perspective is more the life cycle of the software. most of what I have heard about tools is the ease of getting up and running. I don't hear much about maintainence. for instance if you change a data member, how many places does one have to touch code to have that data member change show up.
there is a thing about code stability. the More places you have to touch code the less reliable the code is, after the changes and the more time testing. I come from the experience of testing in black box so you have input and output for each box. so you only have to change a particular box and all the rest not dependent on that box stay stable. The other perspective I have is when I started with C I could compile code into 2K then C plus came along and the same Hello world now compiled into 10k with no advantage for the simple app. I see ofbiz similar to the original C but with the power of C plus without bloat. ======================== BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Linkedin <http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro> Vince Clark sent the following on 3/13/2010 1:51 PM: > Like I said BJ, it is not exactly like OFBiz. But I felt it was a good > comparison for this discussion. > > I am not technically proficient at a deep enough level to make a case for or > against changing out any part of the stack. If I were going to make a case > for it I would probably point to adoption as my reason rather than any > specific technical point. There are a lot of developers and development > managers out there that are experienced with the tools being mentioned in > this thread such as Spring and Hibernate. Using familiar tools helps with > adoption. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "BJ Freeman" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:04:50 AM > Subject: Re: Brainstorming about the Framework: Data Tier > > thanks Vince. > I would first look at the Data model it used compared to the Data model > put forth in the Data model resource books. Does it cover all the data > that the Data model that ofbiz has. > > ofbiz, in my view is not just an ERP application, but a Data and > functional framework on which one of many application that is ERP is built. > > Currently I have a many type of applications built on ofbiz Data model. > So I admit i am resistant to change, because of the manpower it would > take to convert. > > And I believe that is the motivation of those presenting such sweeping > changes. They are most familiar with the technology they are promoting. > Admittedly ofbiz is not the easiest thing to learn and since it is not > used outside ofbiz is not a general usage thing. > > Most talk about ERP, since it seems to be a Big Ticket(money) item. > > As a side note when I first moved to Java OO before I got to ofbiz, I > had code to covert DB into a class for each table and procedures as > methods. I don't consider this the optimum way to maintain or design an > application(s) from Data to UI with the less amount of labor. > > In summation I would say that if someone presents a path to change to > their format from ofbiz and convince me their method of maintainence is > better, I might be interested. > > > > > > ======================= > > BJ Freeman > http://bjfreeman.elance.com > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation > <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > Linkedin > <http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro> > > > Vince Clark sent the following on 3/13/2010 6:52 AM: >> BJ - there is an application that uses many of these other tools. It is not >> open source, but is assembled entirely from open source tools. >> >> http://elasticpath.com/whatweoffer/ecommerce-platform/ >> >> It is not exactly like OFBiz. It doesn't attempt to be an entire ERP system. >> But close enough for comparison here. >> >> Vince Clark >> [email protected] >> (303) 493-6723 office >> (303) 523-4843 cell >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "BJ Freeman" <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:04:08 AM >> Subject: Re: Brainstorming about the Framework: Data Tier >> >> >> Let me ask this, if all these other approaches are better why is there >> not a application like ofbiz done in them, without using ofbiz at all? >> >> I keep getting the feeling that those that want major changes don't >> really understand the design goals of ofbiz. >> >> ======================= >> >> BJ Freeman >> http://bjfreeman.elance.com >> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation >> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93> >> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >> >> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >> >> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >> Linkedin >> <http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro> >> >> >> [email protected] sent the following on 3/11/2010 8:50 AM: >>> While reading the sentence "There are many people out there who don't >>> understand the Entity Engine", I felt a problem implied in it: There are >>> absolutely much more people "out there", and I'm sure the OFBIZ project >>> want to attract them in. Why they keep on asking "Hibernate", "Spring", >>> etc, though? Are they all wrong? >>> >>> In my opinion, the OFBIZ framework DID do a right thing - to provide >>> developers an integrated framework. What I mean is in OFBIZ, the >>> developer can define entity in one place and share the entity definition >>> across different tiers, form persistence to presentation. This kind of >>> integration saved developers a lot from typings and preserved >>> consistency across different application tiers. But, this is not what >>> Entity Engine itself can provide. All gains come from the integration. >>> If we simply separate the OFBIZ entity engine into a stand alone ORM >>> like tool, I bet its not very attractive and only people familiar with >>> OFBIZ already will use it. >>> >>> On the other hand, if there are another framework such as Grails that >>> can provide at least same level of cross tier integration ability, while >>> leverage the sophisticated and WELL KNOWN technologies (such as >>> Hibernate/JPA for ORM, Spring for service tier component composition, >>> Spring MVC for view tier framework). Sounds a little bit attractive than >>> "home made" every thing, isn't it? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Miles. >>> >>> On Thu, 2010-03-11 at 10:23 -0500, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >>>> Hi David: >>>> >>>> Nothing! I think this is an amazing piece of work. IMO, there are many >>>> people out there who don't understand the Entity Engine value >>>> proposition. That is why they keep asking for "Hibernate" etc. >>>> >>>> Here's some things I'd consider as additions: >>>> >>>> * Maybe making a separate component/webapp to manage the Entity >>>> Engine. Take it out of WebTools. >>>> * Include in that webapp any security/role management specific to >>>> the Entity Engine. >>>> * Entity Engine performance tools (or more information on how to use >>>> existing tools). >>>> * Better backup tools (or more information on how to use existing >>>> tools). >>>> >>>> More to come... >>>> Ruth >>>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>>> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>> If you could change anything about the data tier in OFBiz (basically the >>>>> Entity Engine), what would you change? >>>>> >>>>> All comments are welcome. If there is another tool you'd like to see used >>>>> instead of the Entity Engine, please describe what you like about it >>>>> (like "I want to have an Java class for each table in my database") >>>>> instead of just mentioning the tool (like "let's use Hibernate!"). >>>>> >>>>> Why am I asking? This topic comes up every once in a while, and it's true >>>>> that many suggestions never get enough support to actually happen (or on >>>>> further research it is decided that the idea is not tenable), but >>>>> brainstorming about them to get ideas in the open is still a great thing. >>>>> The history of OFBiz is full of things like this where users and more >>>>> casual contributors had ideas and saw possibilities that others, even >>>>> more involved contributors, totally missed or never looked at that way. >>>>> What I think would be fun, and ultimately useful too, is to keep this >>>>> mostly to brainstorming and not do too much comparing of ideas. >>>>> >>>>> BTW, if you want to brainstorm about another tier (ie the Logic or UI >>>>> tiers) please use the other threads on those. If you'd like to discuss >>>>> things that aren't specific to a tier look for the "General" thread. >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> >> > > >
