http://struts.apache.org/roadmap.html http://wiki.apache.org/struts/StrutsJericho
Seem like pretty significant potential changes to me. I think the problem is that the way struts is currently proposed to change is not the way that you (and some others) want it to. This is why you must stop talking about it and start doing it in my opinion.
Even the proposed struts 2.0 stuff may not happen soon, as some of the committers are happy as it is and/or moved on and/or too busy. (Quoting Ted Husted..."unless some young turk comes along and cranks out a working codebase over a holiday weekend")
If you want your prpopsal to remain struts, setup a wiki whiteboard for a while to get ideas, then code it and submit it to contrib like was done with the Jericho idea. It may take off that way and become struts 2.0, you never know.
I don't think I am (or anybody else is) being sensitive to CHANGING struts. I think the problem is (and no offense intended here) that you come off extremely abrasive in your emails, and we are sensitive to that. Your phrasing of "without ego in the core" came off as extremely confrontational on a personal level. That is what I took offense to. Change struts all you want though, make it better, make it smaller, make it make me dinner. That I am not sensitive to at all. I think most everybody in the community would agree.
Matt
Michael McGrady wrote:
Thanks for your ideas, Matt. Some thoughts on this, relating the personal issues as much to Struts as possible, follow:
The subtitle of "eXtreme Programming eXplained" is "EMBRACE CHANGE" by Kent Beck. This is all I am saying. Struts as it looks to v3.0 should embrace change as potential, which will increase, not decrease, the community. This means, to me, embrace the possibility of change. This means, to me, components and whittling things that are UNchangeable down rather than up. If you build dependency into a core, you build ego there as well. That is all I am saying. I hope that is considered to be a constructive point. If not, why not?
This has been a generic point about scientific and professional community development at least since the 1970s. This has nothing to do with any Struts committers or users in particular, although Struts is not immune to the process which the issues address. I am thinking, for example, in addition to the related movements in programming and computer science about books like Kuhn's "The Sources of Scientific Revolution" and the Popperian (Karl Popper) idea of falsification as a root or core idea in intellectual and professional development.
I really cannot believe how sensitive people on this list are to this sort of thing. I really have no interest in these personal issues. I do think that when people take comments about core issues to be personal, then that is not my problem. I mean, do people read Freud and take his comments about sexuality personally? I don't think so. The core issues in programming development have human issues in them. So, when we talk about component development and kernels and so on, there are human issues. This includes ego. This does not mean I am saying anything about the ego of Struts developers. I am not. I am saying that dependency at the core will encourage personal rather than Struts oriented commentary and goals. That is a point about software development.
I too believe in doing rather than talking. I have a lot of code that does what I am talking about. You know, I assume, about the coding I have done on buttons. At this point, however, I am more interested in thinking about it. Again, measure twice, cut once. However, I am not a "committee" type guy either and I acknowledge that you can talk something to death. I do think that the breadth of my knowledge is probably less than needed to make great decisions about a core like this. I do think that I personally would need the input of more knowledge and experience than I have. But, I love the idea and would work on it.
I also love Struts and have no issues with the people. If they have issues, and some do, that is not my business.
Michael McGrady
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