-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Scott Piker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Juni 2005 22:59
An: Struts Users Mailing List; Dakota Jack
Betreff: RE: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
We had to walk in the snow. And we couldn't afford snow
boots, so we had to wrap newspapers around our feet!
...and they made us use Macs!!! ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 4:54 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
When I was going to "programming school" we had to walk to
school and back and it was uphill both ways.
On 6/1/05, Frank W. Zammetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Wed, June 1, 2005 12:15 pm, Simon Chappell said:
Back when I was a young programmer we used to have to
think. THINK!
Hey, I'm the resident bemoaner of how rough we used to have
it! How
dare you take my job?!? :) LOL
Oh
the humanity. No patterns for us. Just endless cups of
tea, a pad of
paper (or the back of long listings on greenbar) and your
flowchart
stencil.
Stencils?!? I laugh at your stencils! It was only
freehand drawings
for us, and that was when we took the time to actually PLAN
anything!
We had it rough I tell you, but I think that we wrote better code
back in those days. And those of us that came through them, still
have a tendency to do so.
I have said on numerous occassions that programmers that have never
touched Assembly are, with few exceptions, not as good.
And although
the overall tone of my reply here is a joking one, this is
a point I
am serious about.
I have actually rejected resumes because they had no Assembly
experience.
I'm not saying you have to be able to hand-code a 3D game
engine, but
at least have had some exposure.
I spent a number of years doing absolutely nothing BUT
Assembly, and
while I honestly haven't done anything beyond some very simple
subfunctions in the past 5-7 years or so, I wouldn't trade that
experience for all the algorithm classes and patterns
knowledge in the
world. There is NOTHING like understanding, at least at a
conceptual
level, what's going on down there in the lower layers of
your machine.
Assembly gives you this.
Like I said, there are exceptions to this rule, but I
haven't met too
many.
My first computer had 1K, yes, that's 1024 bytes.
Timex Sinclair 1000 by any chance? I loved that little thing! So
much so that I spend $200 on one off eBay last year (three of them
actually, with a lot of extras). The best thing about it
was that if
you could manage anything decent on it you were learning...
I crammed
the entire catalog of movie times for a week for Long
Island in it...
invented my own rudimentary compression scheme (although I
had no clue
what "compression"
or "algorithms" were back then... never even heard the
words... I was
like
9 or so!). And I didn't have the 16K expansion module
because my dad
tried to solder it on because we could never get a good
contact, but
he fried it in the process, so I was stuck with the 1K
(actually, now
that I think about it, it might have been 2K. I'm not sure).
We can only hope. Perhaps the prophesied return of Lisp
will finally
happen and people will discover REAL programming, not this Teach
Yourself The Latest Junk in 24 Hours stuff. Real, worthwhile,
programming is hard, so if your going to do it, study for it, and
learn (LEARN I say) to do it well.
I}}}}}hate}}}}}}}}}}}LISP}}}}}}}}}}}}.
LISP... ugh. I can't stand any language that contains more
parenthesis per 1,000 lines of code than ACTUAL CODE! :)
Well done, Craig, with restrospect. A simpler designed framework
like Struts is exactly the example, the proof, which
Simon espouses
above.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you Craig.
I agree... There are probably architecural decisions in
Struts I could
complain about, but I think it would quickly become nothing but
nitpicking. Craig did a rather good job IMHO of straddling
the line
between a good architecure that is flexible and extensible without
making it too complex. Good job indeed, thank you!
Frank
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--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float
on its back."
~Dakota Jack~
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