Ken Springer <snowsh...@q.com> wrote:. > >On 11/10/13 9:11 PM, Ady wrote: >> >> There are many ways for users to communicate: LibreOffice forum, Ask >> LibreOffice, several LibreOffice mailing lists, Nabble, wiki, >> Bugzilla, and several irc channels. The problem is, IMHO, they are >> sometimes "too many" and "too complicated". Let me explain with a >> simple example. > >And I would add, unknown to many users, including myself. I don't have >the time to deal with the few newsgroups I try to follow now, much less >spending a lot of time on LO's website, and then learning how to use >the different venues. > >I will give LO kudos for apparently having the content of Nabble and >the mailing list being identical. At least I believe it's identical. But >LO falls a little bit short in not being able to attach documents, >screenshots, etc. via the mailing list when you use gmane.org. If >that's a gmane issue, then that's the way it is, especially if you've >requested that ability.
I have found that mailing lists frequently strip all attachments. It is recommended instead to post the file on the web instead and incorporate a link to it in your eMail. >I prefer a newsgroup reader to any of the varied forum formats, which >is why I use gmane. To me, Nabble is a forum. But it is better than most >because there is a threaded view. Even at that, it's not as efficient >and quick as using a newsgroup reader. The display takes too much >space for the information displayed, and of course, much slower from what >I've experienced. Pardon my ignorance. I don't even know what Nabble or gmane are. If they are "social media" then this old geezer doesn't participate and that's by choice. Mailing lists, product specific forums, and even (to a limited extent) IRC channels are fine. >> In the release notes for LO 4.1.3, it said that the release was bit >> by bit the same as "RC3". Well, that was incorrect, as it is the same >> as 4.1.3.2, a.k.a. RC2 (there was no 4.1.3.3). What a casual reader >> needs to do if he happens to catch the "typo"? Can he easily report >> the one-character mistake? Does anyone think that this typo deserves >> opening a new bug report in Bugzilla? I shudder at the thought. >I've not found Bugzilla to be user friendly for the average user. >Period. If it's not user friendly for the average user, that user is >going to walk away with a negative impression. Hear, hear! >> For each contact method mentioned above (each ML, Nabble, wiki, >> Bugzilla, forum,...), a user needs to go through an additional sign >> up, sometimes requiring multiple steps. In our example (RC3 typo), do >> you think a casual reader would go through a sign up process just to >> report one wrong character? I hope that one can access these communication channels "read only" without a password(?). >> Just as an example, I am subscribed to the users ML, and I found >> annoying to go through additional sign-ups for Nabble. I can >> understand that there might be relevant reasons for this; but it is >> still annoying :). On the other hand, if a user is interested in >> Writer only, having to receive emails regarding Draw (or anything >> else than Writer) is one reason not to subscribe to the users ML. So >> perhaps separated per-program lists should be available, instead of >> one unified "users" ML? (I am not necessarily recommending it; just >> mentioning such potential situation.) Unfortunately users frequently don't know where to post a question or observation about a particular LO component. Also, some topics apply to the LO framework or to more than one LO component. >Add my support to that suggestion. I get tired of having to deal with >Base issues, since I don't use Base. OTOH I find it educational to see how others are using LO components that I'm not using. >> Then we have several irc channels, but none of those channels >> targeted to users are really active, ever (e.g. #libreoffice and/or >> #libreoffice-qa). So what's the point of publishing the "existence" >> of those irc channels if they are not really open with someone from >> the LibreOffice Team being present in the channel? I'm not saying >> answers should be "on real time". For irc to be relevant for users, >> someone at least should maintain the channel open and saving logs, >> checking it once a day or so. This is one contact method that could >> be easily used to report the typo mentioned in our example. A very salient point. Someone should indeed monitor the IRC(s) and be an interface to/from the developers. Actually, an IRC is very much a realtime communication channel but you are suggesting using it as a minor issue drop box. That's an interesting concept. >> One day is one typo, another day is another typo. Then there is some >> minor low-priority bug in the installer (e.g adding a link to the >> desktop even when the user unchecked the corresponding box during the >> installation process). Then the wiki might need some little >> correction or update... For each minor issue, a user could just think >> "not worth going through all the sign up troubles for each different >> service". As a consequence, none of those little corrections are >> reported / performed. >> >> What's the point of "Ask LibreOffice" if each question is seen, say, >> 3 times in a one week period? Most questions are unanswered. >> Similarly with LibreOffice forum. A user might not bother to sign up >> to such a method that is hardly ever used by relevant users; and if >> it goes through it anyway and no answer is provided (as it is the >> case with most "Ask LibreOffice" topics), it would probably generate >> a rejection response towards LibreOffice. What is "Ask LibreOffice?" How is it accessed? >Regarding the previous 3 paragraphs: > >irc channels, most people have never heard of them. The same for ICQ. ICQ? I'm part of the uninformed crowd. >So they don't know how to use them. I use Skype and Yahoo Messenger. Skype — VOIP? Yahoo Messenger — no clue. >And I started using them because I was given the information those >systems existed. No software package has ever told me "You can get >help using the irc channels, and this is how you use them." > >Same for wikis and "Ask LIbreOffice". I didn't know "Ask LibreOffice" >even existed until your message. I, and the people I know, don't live >on LO, their smartphones, tablets, living their lives there. The >computer is a tool, not a virtual reality to live in. > >I think every download package should include some kind of messaging of >how and where to get help via some kind of splash screen (or something >similar) letting new users know of these help options, and how to get >to them. Are the support channels listed via a menu entry such as Help->Support? I'm not currently at a computer so I can't check. >> If a user signs up and opens a bug report, that's because it is >> significant for him. Is this procedure relevant if the bug report is >> left unanswered for 2 years? Is this user going to keep reporting >> additional bugs? Evidently, solving bugs requires man power, so >> finding a simpler method to report "you have a st*pid typo" might >> help reduce wasted time, for both developers and users. Very true. It might even be a stepping stone for getting new people involved in the process of providing support for others. I know that I would gladly perform proof reading and editing support functions if I only knew where to go. I would even be willing to endure a moderately tortuous registration process to get started with this support functionality. >> So, making the contact methods more relevant, easier (unified?) sign >> up procedures and actually maintaining "active" and relevant the >> different contact channels would contribute to receive more feedback >> and eventually reduce wasted time. > >I would add, if there are more than one channel that supports users, >like this mailing list, the contents should be spread across all the >channels. Then it doesn't matter which method of support is desired by >the user, the user has access to all possible support answers from >individuals, and the same question is less likely to be asked multiple >places. > >> I am writing not to complain, but to voice my personal view of some >> of the ways to improve user's involvement in LibreOffice. I admit I >> am not sure if any of these changes would be the most effective use >> of man-power, so I'm not going to call these "recommendations". These >> might be potential considerations for potential improvements. Whether >> they are _effective_ use of man-power, I don't really know. -- Jim Sent using K-9 on an Android phone. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
