On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 15:00, Mark R. Diggory wrote: > This is all but one opinion on the subject. IMHO, as this is a user list > and not a developer list, I'd advise that moderation should not be so > restrictive when the subject matter is not at all off topic. > > I also think that "comparing total downloads against any discussion" is > a very poor and biased measure of user needs/requirements.
One data point used along side many others, it's certainly not my guiding light. > If you go > around cutting discussions short, then your biasing such a measure in > favor of your own personal opinion Of course I am biasing some decisions on my own personal opinion, isn't that obvious? Who creating a piece of software, being intimately involved from day one doesn't transfer some personal opinions into the software? > and as such it does not reflect the > true opinion of your userbase. There have been many user opinions I don't care to reflect. I've been involved in many open source projects and it is a rare day indeed when a user actually contributes something other than complaints. When users phrase things like "I think Maven should make this an option ... " really means "I can't do things the way I've always been doing them so Maven should support my way of doing it". And that particular user doesn't really give a shit about other users and is certainly not thinking about what it means to have an infinite level of variability. When users come along and go "Oh #$!&!&! Maven, why can't I do this X" then they are forced to ask why Maven doesn't allow something if they wish to continue using Maven. For the most part I'm the biggest hard ass and generally unrelenting. I've even wanted to go so far as not even letting the source directory be configurable but I do listen and it's configurable. I'm not trying fuck every user by not letting them do everything they want. I truly and honestly believe that in the long run it will be better to sacrifice some variability for a standard, even if some of the standard is ad hoc. Some consistency across the board in the build system so people can stop farting around with this mundane shit and allow ideas to flourish in great applications. This approach has proven immensely distasteful to people with existing builds, lots of people hate Maven for that reason. But I think almost anyone building apps doesn't want to waste their time on this boring shit. If there was a way to build java projects in a consistent way, produce some standard artifacts and doco I probably never would have started this thing. If there was something that allowed this I probably could have lived with what I thought were a few inconveniences where I disagreed with some usage pattern in order not to ever have to look at a build again. I think the vast majority of users are the same. > -Mark Diggory > http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/math/index.html > > Jason van Zyl wrote: > > On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 20:14, Bob Cumbers wrote: > > > >>>Never going to happen and I make no apologies for that. > >> > >>It's nice to see that you take user input so graciously > > > > > > Give me a break. > > > > When I think something is categorically a bad practice then the dialog > > is cut short. I am not trying to win any popularity contests and I'm > > don't care if every single user is happy. It's just not possible. But I > > have taken loads of suggestions for Maven and they have found there way > > into Maven. But there are several issues like multiple sources > > directories, mixing test and application code and several other issues > > which I will not change my mind on. > > > > Maven is but one solution for building your project. I encourage anyone > > not happy with it to go find something else. > > > > I also take into consideration the number of downloads in constrast with > > the number of people who complain about certain limitations. I certainly > > don't think mixing test/application code is a good idea but I think > > given that I've only seen a few people want this out of the thousands > > that have downloaded Maven is a good indicator that most users think > > it's not a very good idea. I'm not a politician, I could care less if > > all users like me because most users are selfish and only consider their > > own methods and own desires when requesting features while generally > > never considering larger issues. As always there are the valued and > > treasured exceptions by users who have genuinely taken into > > consideration all users and the larger issues. Just because a user makes > > a suggestion doesn't mean it's a good one. If you're looking for grace > > go somewhere else. > > > > > >>--------------------------------- > >>Do you Yahoo!? > >>SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tambora.zenplex.org In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
