Stephen, those are great questions. Yet, I think these questions are riding an assumption that PMC members are solely volunteering at Apache, because the emphasis (as I interpret your words) is to place the Apache project first/above other external contributions. Isn't that the heart of this debate? A person who solely contributes to Apache and no other OS organizations has no divided loyalties -- they do all their work here. But what happens when contributions are here and elsewhere? I ask rhetorically, to solicit answers, of course... and I see where this is going and what historical processes within Maven are being addressed.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Stephen Connolly < stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com> wrote: > Perhaps we could reframe the question a little then (as people seem to be > testing hung up on the committed wording)... > > Should the PMC encourage people experimenting on new improvements to Maven > to do that work at the ASF? And if so, should they then practice what they > preach, and ensure that any experiments with Maven take place on the ASF > SCM servers (at least once such experiments become semi-serious or progress > enough not to cause egg-on-face syndrome)? > > Shoud the PMC promote other Apache projects, or moving non-Apache projects > to Apache? (Right now, to work on an issue in core and effect the change > yourself you may need to establish merit with: Apache Maven, Eclipse Sisu, > Eclipse Aether, Plexus, Apache Commons, Classworlds, etc. Now it may be > fine with half of these at Eclipse and the ther half here... Or maybe > not... But that is a lot of projects where you need to establish merit and > perhaps maintain merit just to be able to commit directly (which sometimes > is the only way to effect the type of cross system changes that some of our > more obscure bugs may require... GIT makes this less of a requirement, as > patches on SVN are a PITA, though) ) > > These types of questions need resolution as they will, further down the > road, rise up again and cause wounds... Eg logback vs log4j2 is one that > simmers at the edge (any time anyone mentioned coloured loggers) > > -Stephen > > On Thursday, 25 July 2013, Paul Benedict wrote: > > > I don't think it is possible to force volunteer efforts and/or limit > > development elsewhere. The idea of supporting a project is a vague > notion. > > I have my opinions too but this language is clearly unenforceable and > > impractical. > > > > Cheers, > > Paul > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Markus Karg <k...@quipsy.de> wrote: > > > > > As a Maven user I think that everybody who is working on a project > should > > > behave the same. Hence, I would say, PMC members should rather > certainly > > > demonstrate how to live the community rules. > > > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > > Von: Stephen Connolly [mailto:stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com] > > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Juli 2013 15:16 > > > An: Maven Users List; Maven Developers List > > > Betreff: [DISCUSS] Should the Maven PMC be an example of how we want > the > > > Maven Community to behave (was Re: svn commit: r1506778 - > > > /maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md) > > > > > > There are two schools of thought amongst the current members of this > > > projects PMC. > > > > > > Without wanting to deliberately tip my hand and reveal where my opinion > > > is, we would like to solicit the opinions if the community that we > serve. > > > > > > Please give us your thoughts. > > > > > > The topic is essentially: > > > > > > Do you want the members of the Maven PMC to be social leaders of the > > Maven > > > community, who's actions demonstrate the best community behaviour? > > > > > > The alternative is that members of the Maven PMC are here purely to > > > complete the legal requirements that an Apache TLP has delegated to > PMCs > > > > > > This is not black and white... The answer can be grey... And everyone > is > > > human so can make mistakes... > > > > > > So community, what are you expecting? > > > > > > - Stephen Connolly > > > > > > On Thursday, 25 July 2013, wrote: > > > > > > > Author: jdcasey > > > > Date: Wed Jul 24 23:21:58 2013 > > > > New Revision: 1506778 > > > > > > > > URL: http://svn.apache.org/r1506778 > > > > Log: > > > > Adding section on PMC standards of community commitment > > > > > > > > Modified: > > > > maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md > > > > > > > > Modified: maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md > > > > URL: > > > > > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project > > > > -roles.md?rev=1506778&r1=1506777&r2=1506778&view=diff > > > > > > > > > ====================================================================== > > > > ======== > > > > --- maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md (original) > > > > +++ maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md Wed Jul 24 > > > > 23:21:58 2013 > > > > @@ -176,6 +176,29 @@ The Project Management Committee has the > > > > * Voting on release artifacts. > > > > * <!-- TODO: get the rest of these --> > > > > > > > > +#### Standards for Community Commitment > > > > + > > > > +In the spirit of supporting the health of our community, Project > > > > +Management Committee members refrain from actions that subvert the > > > > +functioning of the committee itself. > > > > + > > > > +First, Project Management Committee members should not maintain > > > > long-running > > > > +forks of Maven code outside of the project itself. Making > significant > > > > +changes to Maven code outside of the project displays a lack of > > > > +investment in the community. Additionally, attempting to > re-integrate > > > > +a large number of code changes in bulk overwhelms the ability of > > > > +volunteers in the community to review (and potentially veto) the > > > > +changes. This effectively thwarts the policing function of the PMC. > > > > + > > > > +Second, Project Management Committee members should not divert work > > > > +on redesigning, reimplementing, or improving Maven code to > > > > +alternative projects outside of this community for the purposes of > > > > +reintroducing them as replacement for existing Maven code. While > > > > +there is a danger he> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org <javascript:;> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org > <javascript:;> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > Paul > > > > > -- > Sent from my phone > -- Cheers, Paul
