On 25/07/2013 5:32 PM, Stephen Connolly wrote:
On 25 July 2013 22:17, Paul Benedict <[email protected]> wrote:
Stephen, those are great questions. Yet, I think these questions are riding
an assumption that PMC members are solely volunteering at Apache, because
the emphasis (as I interpret your words) is to place the Apache project
first/above other external contributions. Isn't that the heart of this
debate? A person who solely contributes to Apache and no other OS
organizations has no divided loyalties -- they do all their work here. But
what happens when contributions are here and elsewhere?
If they feel they cannot resolve any conflict between their role on the PMC
and any responsibilities the Maven community decide are part and parcel of
that role with their roles in other projects, then quite simply they can
just step down from the PMC and remain a committer. There is no shame in so
doing.
Which brings us back to what does the community expect from its PMC?
I can only speak for me.
I expect the committee to:
- Maintain a coherent roadmap that makes sense to the majority of the
community
- To communicate the roadmap to the community and listen to the feedback
- To ensure that the releases are complete - code tested and
documentation updated
- To coordinate the activities of the committers to ensure that they are
meeting the technical standards and completing the release functionality
and docs according to the agreed schedule.
- To ensure that the project committers are enjoying working together
and that disagreements are worked on in a professional way.
Ron
I ask rhetorically,
to solicit answers, of course... and I see where this is going and what
historical processes within Maven are being addressed.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Stephen Connolly <
[email protected]> wrote:
Perhaps we could reframe the question a little then (as people seem to be
testing hung up on the committed wording)...
Should the PMC encourage people experimenting on new improvements to
Maven
to do that work at the ASF? And if so, should they then practice what
they
preach, and ensure that any experiments with Maven take place on the ASF
SCM servers (at least once such experiments become semi-serious or
progress
enough not to cause egg-on-face syndrome)?
Shoud the PMC promote other Apache projects, or moving non-Apache
projects
to Apache? (Right now, to work on an issue in core and effect the change
yourself you may need to establish merit with: Apache Maven, Eclipse
Sisu,
Eclipse Aether, Plexus, Apache Commons, Classworlds, etc. Now it may be
fine with half of these at Eclipse and the ther half here... Or maybe
not... But that is a lot of projects where you need to establish merit
and
perhaps maintain merit just to be able to commit directly (which
sometimes
is the only way to effect the type of cross system changes that some of
our
more obscure bugs may require... GIT makes this less of a requirement, as
patches on SVN are a PITA, though) )
These types of questions need resolution as they will, further down the
road, rise up again and cause wounds... Eg logback vs log4j2 is one that
simmers at the edge (any time anyone mentioned coloured loggers)
-Stephen
On Thursday, 25 July 2013, Paul Benedict wrote:
I don't think it is possible to force volunteer efforts and/or limit
development elsewhere. The idea of supporting a project is a vague
notion.
I have my opinions too but this language is clearly unenforceable and
impractical.
Cheers,
Paul
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Markus Karg <[email protected]> wrote:
As a Maven user I think that everybody who is working on a project
should
behave the same. Hence, I would say, PMC members should rather
certainly
demonstrate how to live the community rules.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Stephen Connolly [mailto:[email protected]]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Juli 2013 15:16
An: Maven Users List; Maven Developers List
Betreff: [DISCUSS] Should the Maven PMC be an example of how we want
the
Maven Community to behave (was Re: svn commit: r1506778 -
/maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md)
There are two schools of thought amongst the current members of this
projects PMC.
Without wanting to deliberately tip my hand and reveal where my
opinion
is, we would like to solicit the opinions if the community that we
serve.
Please give us your thoughts.
The topic is essentially:
Do you want the members of the Maven PMC to be social leaders of the
Maven
community, who's actions demonstrate the best community behaviour?
The alternative is that members of the Maven PMC are here purely to
complete the legal requirements that an Apache TLP has delegated to
PMCs
This is not black and white... The answer can be grey... And everyone
is
human so can make mistakes...
So community, what are you expecting?
- Stephen Connolly
On Thursday, 25 July 2013, wrote:
Author: jdcasey
Date: Wed Jul 24 23:21:58 2013
New Revision: 1506778
URL: http://svn.apache.org/r1506778
Log:
Adding section on PMC standards of community commitment
Modified:
maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md
Modified: maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md
URL:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project
-roles.md?rev=1506778&r1=1506777&r2=1506778&view=diff
======================================================================
========
--- maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md (original)
+++ maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md Wed Jul 24
23:21:58 2013
@@ -176,6 +176,29 @@ The Project Management Committee has the
* Voting on release artifacts.
* <!-- TODO: get the rest of these -->
+#### Standards for Community Commitment
+
+In the spirit of supporting the health of our community, Project
+Management Committee members refrain from actions that subvert the
+functioning of the committee itself.
+
+First, Project Management Committee members should not maintain
long-running
+forks of Maven code outside of the project itself. Making
significant
+changes to Maven code outside of the project displays a lack of
+investment in the community. Additionally, attempting to
re-integrate
+a large number of code changes in bulk overwhelms the ability of
+volunteers in the community to review (and potentially veto) the
+changes. This effectively thwarts the policing function of the
PMC.
+
+Second, Project Management Committee members should not divert
work
+on redesigning, reimplementing, or improving Maven code to
+alternative projects outside of this community for the purposes of
+reintroducing them as replacement for existing Maven code. While
+there is a danger he> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [email protected]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
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