On 26/07/2013 10:26 PM, Richard Sand wrote:
"Sometimes groupthink does not reach the best conclusion and an individual
effort may be required to move the state of the art.
OTOH, the majority should not be held up by a person with ideas that the majority
does not want to pursue. "
So what you're saying is, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Or the one?
Sorry couldn't resist...!
One or the other depending on the circumstance.
Freedom comes in many ways and sometimes letting go gives more freedom
to the one doing the releasing than to the one being "freed".
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Wheeler [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 9:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Should the Maven PMC be an example of how we want the
Maven Community to behave (was Re: svn commit: r1506778 -
/maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md)
On 26/07/2013 11:35 AM, Baptiste MATHUS wrote:
Le 25 juil. 2013 23:05, "Stephen Connolly"
<[email protected]> a écrit :
Perhaps we could reframe the question a little then (as people seem
to be testing hung up on the committed wording)...
Should the PMC encourage people experimenting on new improvements to
Maven to do that work at the ASF?
Sure. I don't see how one could disagree with the statement.
Encourage or force! Big difference.
Sometimes groupthink does not reach the best conclusion and an individual
effort may be required to move the state of the art.
OTOH, the majority should not be held up by a person with ideas that the
majority does not want to pursue. Both sides can benefit from a fork.
And if so, should they then practice what they preach, and ensure
that any experiments with Maven take place on the ASF SCM servers (at
least once such experiments become semi-serious or
progress
enough not to cause egg-on-face syndrome)?
Re-reading it with *PMC member* in mind, it also makes sense.
The difficulty is actually defining what is semi-serious, but anyway
not sure I'd see the goal for a *pmc member* to commit his WIP outside the asf.
Sure there's github's facilities to help contribution but there's
already an automatic asf->github mirroring, right?
Shoud the PMC promote other Apache projects, or moving non-Apache
projects to Apache? (Right now, to work on an issue in core and
effect the change yourself you may need to establish merit with:
Apache Maven, Eclipse Sisu, Eclipse Aether, Plexus, Apache Commons,
Classworlds, etc. Now it may be fine with half of these at Eclipse
and the ther half here... Or maybe not... But that is a lot of
projects where you need to establish merit and perhaps maintain merit
just to be able to commit directly (which sometimes is the only way
to effect the type of cross system changes that some of
our
more obscure bugs may require... GIT makes this less of a
requirement, as patches on SVN are a PITA, though) )
Not sure how this one could get handled in practice. I suppose this is
better to try and keep them at Apache, but using a myriad of different
libs is a reality in a majority if not all java projects.
To handle code issues, I think this might suffice to check the license
allows a local versions be used (as Jenkins does) to be sure Maven
does not get stuck because of one of those deps.
I think apache projects should be preferred when there's a real
equivalence between two choices. But again defining/agreeing on this
can be hard. On the log4j2/logback side for example, even if I
personally use logback on a daily-basis I'd understand log4j2 be
chosen as a default provider because it's a apache project and the
equivalence seems to be more and more a reality.
As a consumer of Apache products, I certainly appreciate the importance of
reducing the number of licenses schemes in a dependency.
This means that I would prefer log4j over a marginally better logging framework
that came with another license even if the terms of the license are acceptable.
I simply prefer to work with a license that I already have invested time in
understanding and trust rather than a license that I have to research.
Ron
Cheers
-- Baptiste
--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [email protected]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
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