Re: surefire and testng integration issues with surefire-2.4.2

[Jason van Zyl]

On 20-Mar-08, at 10:47 AM, Jason Chaffee wrote:
I am simply glad that it got someone's attention and I feel that in no
way was the tone of that email blasting anyone, it was informing the
maven community of the perception that is developing around maven and
ASF in the java community and our frustration.  I did not call out any
one person individually nor did I attack anyone.  Perhaps this is part
of the problem, the over sensitive response when people do provide
critical feedback.  It feels like there is an instant defense  
mechanism
and it just leads fosters the perceptions and frustrations I mentioned
previously.


Reacting to you floating the notion that the whole project lacks  
quality while siting your specific problem with Surefire I believe is  
justified. Brian was only making a counter to your implied assertion  
that we're not doing anything to improve the quality of the project.

So I would agree that it's not an overt blasting, but it was a subtle  
tactic to illicit a response to your particular problem. Brian simply  
pointing out that it's not appreciated using an argument of community  
discontent to get attention. JIRA, patches, and siting the problem at  
hand will also work.

I have been defending maven for a long time, I just have reached a  
point
that I feel enough is enough.  If you have to continue to defend
something for what some people perceive as the same mistakes over and
over again, it is time to speak up.


Sure, but the first visible entry point for a dialog should be trying  
to work with developers like Dan to work through the problem. Not use  
your argument to gain an entry point to the discussion -- though this  
seemed to work for you.

Anyway, I will refrain from speaking up again as "I feel" like it  
isn't
worth the trouble.


If an exchange of a few emails with Brian where he is trying to show a  
better path to get solutions make you feel like it's not worth  
communicating further then I would say the overreaction is more on  
your part. You made reasonable requests, albeit laden with assertions  
irrelevant to getting a solution, and Brian made reasonable responses.  
It also looks like people are trying to help you sort out your issues  
on the dev list. So don't give up so easily, I think you'll get where  
you want get.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian E. Fox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:30 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: surefire and testng integration issues with  
surefire-2.4.2

In the meantime, perhaps a Jira would be good so we don't lose the  
time
you invested so far.

FYI: We are working hard to stabilize the Maven 2.0.x branch by
increasing the test coverage and IT coverage. We rely on volunteer
effort to help fix these things as they come up. We appreciate the
effort you put in here but blasting the team about instability doesn't
really help solve anything. We know there are issues and want to fix
them, it's not like we enjoy volunteering to intentionally make
something that annoys you. I've recently done polls to find out the  
pain
points for people upgrading and we are addressing those in 2.0.9 and
2.0.10. Hopefully we will start to see some gains in the next  
releases.

As far as TestNG support goes, this is still new and I think the users
are in the minority, so I guess I'm not really surprised that it's not
perfect yet.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Chaffee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 1:17 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: surefire and testng integration issues with  
surefire-2.4.2

I will look into creating something as soon as I have time to make  
sure
it is well tested.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian E. Fox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:11 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: surefire and testng integration issues with  
surefire-2.4.2

We are listening. Can you make a patch for surefire?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Chaffee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:57 PM
To: Maven Developers List; Maven Users List
Subject: RE: surefire and testng integration issues with  
surefire-2.4.2

Yeah, I have no problem writing my own.  However, if this is to be
expected of TestNG users to get similar output as previous versions of
surefire, then it should be WELL documented as such.

My issue is that the behavior changed between surefire versions.  This
caused all kinds of confusion for developers at my company, they  
needed
the latest version of testng to support some functionality, but they  
had
to use the latest surefire to use the latest testng and all of a  
sudden
the output completely disappeared.  The frustrating part is the maven
developers who worked on surefire claimed it was because of the way
testng worked and that there was nothing they could do about it.  With
very little effort, by reading the TestNG JavaDoc and looking at the
surefire code to see that they simply didn't implement the methods  
that
would have kept the behavior the same.

This frustrates me and everyone at my company to no end. Slowly, but
surely Maven and the ASF are being looked at as software lacking in
quality, both within my company and in the Java community as well, as
top respected people in the community (who shall remain nameless in  
this
post) "rant" about the errors with maven implementation quite often  
and
speak about how the concept is good, but the implementation has been
anything but good and this leads to other conclusions about the way  
ASF
and the Maven project are being run as a whole.

This is most unfortunate.

This has turn into a "rant" from me, but I think it is worthwhile to
have the maven developers hear critical feedback from time to tome.

-----Original Message-----
From: P'Simer, Dana (Matrix) [mailto:Dana.P'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:39 AM
To: Maven Users List; Maven Developers List
Subject: RE: surefire and testng integration issues with  
surefire-2.4.2

I have recently been dealing with a similar issue.  I wanted Junit  
style
reports and did not want to use ant run to run the JunitConverter  
task,
so I added reportng as a test scoped dependency and configured a
listener.

As an interim solution, you could write a listener that does what you
want.  It could just be in your src/test/java dir as classes there  
will
be available to TestNG when it is running so there is no need to  
create
a separate jar, unless you want to.  To configure it you would do
something like this:

...
   <plugin>
     <artifactId>maven-surefire-plugin</artifactId>
     ...
     <configuration>
       ...
       <properties>
         <name>listener</name>
         <value>x.y.z.MyNiftyProgressOutputter</value>
       </properties>
       ...
     </configuration>
     ...
   </plugin>
...

The listener properties's value can be a comma separated list of  
classes
so if you have more than one, you can do that.

Good Luck,

Dana H. P'Simer
Dana.P'[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Chaffee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:32 AM
To: Maven Developers List
Cc: Maven Users List
Subject: surefire and testng integration issues with surefire-2.4.2

I brought this up in the past the maven guys were adamant that they  
were
not able to get per test information to output on the console unless
testng changed.  I felt all along that this was not correct and I
finally had a chance to look into it.  Surefire could simply  
register a
listener to get call backs during the execution and could output the
results.  TestNG does support this functionality with the  
ITestListener.
For example, onStart() will give the start of running a particular  
class
configuration and test methods and onFinish() will be called after all
of the configuration and test methods have been run.  I took a look at
the Surefire code and there is a TestNGReporter that does implement  
the
ITestListener, but it does not implement these methods, they are all
no-ops.  So, it seems like these could be implemented and then we  
could
see progress output on the console.





---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder,  Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
----------------------------------------------------------

We know what we are, but know not what we may be.

-- Shakespeare 




---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]