What makes you think you start with the correct model? You have to be able to create 2000 incorrect models; then you can create the correct one. Just ask Thomas Edison.
Rob @objectsource.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Haynes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "MyFaces Discussion" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 9:00 AM Subject: Re: JSF + Spring + Hibernate > I'm going through that phase now waiting for the epiphany to strike... > > What I would really like is an article about thinking in ORM (ala > Hibernate or EJB) that doesn't talk about how the APIs are put together > but, instead, deals with concepts like: this is how to think about > modeling in ORM, this is how to structure stuff in Hibernate for a > data-backed bean, or this is how to set up your source area to make all > this a little clearer. A diagrammatic modeling method would also be of > great value. Heck, even a suggested naming practice would be nice! Is > that XxxAction, XxxController, XxxBean, XxxBackingBean, XxxModel, > XxxDAO, etc.? > > Maybe I'm being a little selfish, but it seems to me that the majority > of postings about backing-store issues are from poor sods such as myself > who are trying to simply create data-coupled web applications that won't > fall apart with the first change. (i.e. that use well structured > toolkits to assist). With all the options that are available, it is > difficult to get one scenario working, let alone being able to compare > solutions in some meaningful way. Every time an issue comes up, the > answer seems to be to add another software layer, from another > development group, with another model/philosophy for how the solution > should be coded. Having reference implementations helps to some degree, > but if you are missing the fundamental concepts, the reference > implementations can end up being confusing since they tend to highlight > the differences/features of the particular implementation over the > competition. Even the books with implementations in them tend to dive > directly into the code without addressing the modeling aspect and the > thinking that goes into creating the correct model to begin with. > > -david- > > Joshua Davis wrote: > > >Sorry 'bout the head banging! :( If there's anything I can do to help, let > >me know. > > > >You are absolutely, positively 100% correct about 'getting a grip' on > >Hibernate. > > > >It's actually more fundamental than that: You need to have a good > >understanding of ORM in general in order to use Hibernate (or EJB Entities, > >or TOPLink, etc.) effectively. For me, understanding ORM was a 'leap' that > >was similar to when I went from structured programming to OOP. > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Werner Punz > >>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 3:56 AM > >>To: [email protected] > >>Subject: Re: JSF + Spring + Hibernate > >> > >>One of the reasons why I am not that much a friend of > >>Hibernate anymore. > >>I did 4 projects with it, and the problems always were the same... > >>Overkill in mapping details, Session handling and choking on > >>pojos in which made things more complicated than they should > >>be, failurs in dependency resolution on write over more > >>complicated data structures, which then had to be resolved manually... > >> > >>Constant banging the heads on small stuff, like having a > >>clean and proper way to resolve m:n issues. Sometimes there > >>are errors where Hibernate simply does nothing but does not > >>even throw errors. > >> > >>Dont get me wrong, Hibernate is an excellent tool, and > >>basically has solved most of not all issues you constantly > >>run into with Object Relational mappins and OODBs, but it is > >>options overkill and definitely not easy to handle. > >>I am not sure which is more complicated the EJB approach or > >>the options overkill in Hibernate, which does not force you > >>into anything, but often simply fails with leaving you > >>standing in the rain. > >> > >>My opinion is, there must be some kind of middle way, to give > >>you enough flexibility but does not push you into such a huge > >>complex layer, Hibernate has evolved into, also 90% of the > >>main problem you constantly have with hibernate is the > >>complicated way the session handles the pojos... Dump the > >>wrong pojo into the session and you get a object has been > >>used failure.... Run out of the session hibernate chokes on > >>lazy access instead of trying to resolve the problem by > >>opening another one and trying to load the rest automatically... > >> > >>I would say, Hibernate is the worst/best working solution you > >>can get from OSS in regards to ORM mapping, but one thing is > >>for sure, it made things definitely not easier, although if > >>you have a grip on it, you can save a lot of time, but > >>aquiring the grip is a hard task, even with the excellent docs. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
