Paul,
Thanks, sincerely, for coming back to the discussion.
In a message dated 2009.11.08 15:21 -0500, Paul wrote:
... I began list moderation years ago and the issue was
around/inherited at the time. I can't say I'm any closer to list
management than anyone else. ...
But don't you, as a moderator, know the list owner and support people?
That's already more than the users know.
... I'm sure Paul has better things to do than to constantly
tell people "yeah, it's broke, but we can't fix it."
Absolutely true.
Actually, considering how much time this costs the list, I doubt that any
moderator has /better/ things to do than to inform the list of the status of
list management problems (insofar as he knows) and to use his proximity to
list management to advocate improvements. But again, you did not address
the premise: What I said was not a "slam". [IF you (or any moderators whom
you believe are too shy to go public) think of a civil question as a "slam",
Kipling has a poem for you.]
I'm not shy, just tired of saying the same thing endlessly... I don't
actually think there are any other moderators (we are a dying race).
I appreciate that. It just seems like, in the limited time I've been on
this list, these questions have come up so often - generating so much
traffic that defeats the whole purpose of making the list so user
friendly that newbies need not subscribe - that list moderation is
affected. We've seen people who are mainstays of the list disagree
about what to do. OO is the loser. I don't want to make your job more
onerous, but it seems like, if problems really cannot be fixed,
moderators must say something to reduce the speculation and traffic.
Good poem ....
Yes; nice catch ....
Paul did instruct me to check the archives to learn /why/ he was
not moved to do anything, but that turned out to be just another
waste of time, ....
At the end of the day I use the same search archives as anyone else.
I know this topic is often discussed and I've made numerous comments
about the limited role of the moderator (which is really a misnamed
title). That doesn't mean however I can find example any easier than
yourself. However I did do a search ...
May I ask what you searched on? Because you said "Search the archives
for what moderators can and can't do", I used "moderator" - but then the
results, as I reported were polluted by the many hits that landed on
"moderated". What search string did you use?
... and some mail archives of interest are linked below:
Original 'moderator' job posting:
http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=users&msgNo=54585
Explaining a little more (from person who was moderator for long time):
http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=users&msgNo=85204
Further information on moderator job:
http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=users&msgNo=143146
http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=users&msgNo=195488
Thanks for those; they do say something about the moderator job. I am
interested, though, in how you found the ones from 2004/2005, since
there would have been thousands of later hits on "moderator" or
"moderators" [most because of the archive search bug] before coming to them.
Further email reminding people about use of the list, how to treat
unsubscribed users:
http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=users&msgNo=139887
Yes, I can see that's where we are now. Harold Fuchs, in particular,
takes pains to follow that advice - even though it's an inadequate
response because of the scenario outlined earlier in this thread:
1. Unsubscribed poster A ask a question.
2. B replies to the list - and seeing A is unsubscribed, copies him.
3. C replies to B - and does not see that A should also be copied.
Until we have a solution addressing that scenario, I doubt that the
advice of CP Hennesy is worth inscribing as the list's standard mode of
operation.
I also agree that this discussion, if people want to continue it, be moved
to the 'discuss' list.
I haven't received a response from those I've raised it to but will
advise when/if I do.
Thank you! Are you at liberty to post names and addresses, or to prompt
them to move this correspondence to the 'discuss' list?
Everyone on this list has the right to raise an issue if they want something
handled differently. There is a sub-component titled "openoffice.org mailing
lists" to use if you want to specify an issue area. Below is a link on how
to lodge issues:
http://qa.openoffice.org/issue_handling/pre_submission.html
Thanks. I followed that link to take your advice, but was stopped by
the advice on filing: to avoid duplication. Since these matters have
already been filed as issues (years ago), anything newly filed would
seem to be duplication. At this point, the most hopeful thing seems to
be your off-list correspondence - which would be nice to see on-list (as
'discuss') if possible.
Thanks, again, for your generous answers and for your work as moderator,
John
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