I want to answer this but the discussion should really be on the
general/discuss list so I'm cross-posting there.
Robin Laing wrote:
The styles and formatting window on my version of OO does not show all
the formats of the style selected. I can open the Modify dialog to see
what the formats are supposed to be. I don't see a single location with
the exact properties of where my cursor is. I can look at the Bold to
see if Bold is supposed to be on. I can look at the Font box to see if
the font is correct.
Regardless of how the formatting was applied, whether by styles or
directly, you can see this when you go to Format ->
Character/Paragraph/Page through the top menu.
*However*, the problem there is that there is no way to tell _why_ the
format is exactly as specified in those dialogs. It makes no distinction
between format settings that derive from a style and directly applied
formatting. Character formatting (font, etc.) are the worst because
there is no way to easily discern whether the formatting derives from
the Paragraph Style, a Character Style, or was directly applied. A
Character Style will override the settings in the Paragraph style and
any directly applied formatting will trump both.
I just opened a document that was imported into OOo and I cannot find
where the formatting tells the document to ignore the margins. Nothing
is highlited in the Styles and Formatting window. I click on the
document but no style is indicate other than Default in the bottom
status bar.
Margins are a property of a Page style. Deviations from this are
indents, which are a property of Paragraphs. The "Default in the bottom
status bar" indicates the Page style in use.
To find out any more details, I have to open the modify dialog and then
I cannot move my cursor to a new location. I cannot do this at every
word or character to find the problem. At least this is only a two page
document.
The kind of problem you were describing (having to do with margins and
indents) there is no need to look at words or characters. The margin is
a Page property and indents and Paragraph properties. All you would need
to do is put the cursor *anywhere* in the offending paragraph and open
Format -> Paragraph to see what the indent settings are. If the named
Style applied to that paragraph (in the Styles and Formatting window)
has the settings you want then the simplest course of action is to
highlight the whole paragraph and go to Format -> Default
(cntl+shft+space) to remove any direct formatting. Whatever you do in
the Paragraph style or format dialogs applies to the whole paragraph.
There is no need to search for some offending bit of "code" lurking
invisibly between characters.
I see that within the current design of OOo, a method of revealing the
property changes can be done. It wouldn't be as powerful as Reveal
Codes, it would allow much quicker problem solving of document
formatting problems.
I disagree, but more on this below.
In this case, I tried Jannz Reveal Codes macro but it won't allow me to
move the cursor when it is open.
But I get a simple screen that shows me the various parameters that are
valid at that point. I did see that the Left margin is set to a -value
which explains the text being outside the margins. Of course my Styles
and Formatting has highlited Default and there is nothing within the
Default to indicate the margin has been changed or overwritten. Oh, it
could be a different style, I had better start looking.
That is indeed a limitation with the current implementation. The named
style highlighted in the Styles and Formatting window indicates the
underlying Page/Character/Paragraph style in effect at that point. It
does *not* reflect any direct formatting applied on top of that.
This is the issue that keeps popping up when importing various
documents. Where was that bloody change made.
That last sentence tells me that you still don't quite "get it". There's
no transition from "this" to "that". If you own a blue Ford station
wagon, is there a physical place where it "begins" being a Ford? Is
there a Ford code that turns on at the front bumper and turns off at the
tail lights? No. The whole thing just *is* Ford, and just *is* blue, and
just *is* a station wagon.
But you are correct, progress has been made. I feel that OOo can have
the best of both worlds which will make it even that much better than MS
Office than it already is. :)
Reveal codes is very much like View Non-Printing characters in Writer.
And for good reason since WP codes *are* non-printing characters. The
only non-printing characters in Writer are the space, tab, paragraph,
new-line, page break, and section break characters. Now, when I edit
something I got from someone/where else, the very first thing I do is
turn on the View Non-Printing Characters. That way I can easily *see*
whether that first line indentation is an actual indentation from a
paragraph property as opposed to a tab or even a bunch of spaces. I
don't have to put my cursor in it to figure that out.
Reveal codes in WP fulfills that same purpose for formatting in general
and something similar is needed in Writer. The problem with the current
setup is that it's like a microscope when what you need are binoculars.
If this discussion ever bears any fruit, it needs to be understood that
what you *won't* get is a menu item that says "Reveal Codes". "View
Formatting" would be better, IMO. Whatever it is needs to reflect what
the real deal is. Ian does good work, but the one thing I really dislike
about his RevealCodes macro is that it reinforces a misconception. It
would be a real mistake--and just wrong--to create an implementation
that looks like RC.
It needs to be a birds-eye view so you can see what styles are applied
where and what direct formatting is applied on top of that. That would
effectively give you the equivalent of RC but in a manner that reflects
the actual workings of Writer.
--
Rod
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