Hi Eike, "Eike Rathke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> You're mixing up two different things: ODF file format and UI > representation. > No. I'm talking only and specificly about DEFAULT UI representation in any product developed not strictly for personal use, but jointly (and heavily!) for Data Interchange as well; and thát's what we are talking about when it comes to Calc. Since ISO 8601 formatting has been universally and globally agreed upon already about half a century ago: in ANY localized version of whatever UI, only THAT format should be presented as "THE" BASIC default representation format. For decades to come, so called "localized formats" (see below) might still be understood within smaller communities (e.g. nationally), but might cause a lot of problems when transferred outside the borders of such communities. The world doesn't stop to exist any more at such borders. That's why a vast majority of right-minded people (science, education, industry, government) strongly have been advocating a fast universal turn around to ISO 8601 format in education and everyday use for everybody all over the world. (Of course: what a user would change that default representation to afterwards, or what specific format to be used in the context of documents made for private or restricted group use, always is strictly up to that user to decide. Thus, OPTIONS for obsolete formats should stay available.) > Why? Most users expect to see and edit in the format they're used to, > which still is their localized format. > Yes and No. Yes. But giving in to that kind of "convenience", one would go wrong; one should NEVER give in on that level. Because then, one would do nothing to HELP people turn around to accept and implement any Standard, Rule, Law or whatever. On the contrary, one deliberately would ruin a lot of precious effort. Not being a comercially driven community, the Open Community, and especially developers in that Community, should realize that certain educational obligations towards general community (i.e. not only the Open Community itself) do exist, and thus a number of "less convenient" principles should prevail over the need for optional obsolete formats. No. Formally, all-numeric "localized formats" don't exist at all any more, and have not been existing any more for the past half a century. The only valid formats existing are ISO 8601 representation and (of course: then localized because of language dependency) full date with month NAMED. If they don't know that already, local users should be made aware of that fact: see Yes. (That's why I suggested for ALL general and localized formatting: at least in the Formula bar, NEVER show anything else but format "yyyy-mm-dd".) > You might want to discuss this in-depth with the User Experience team > though. > Only if still necessary, I would. As if still necessary, I would also discuss it with developers as well. But I think developers already should have been very aware of this issue for a number of decades, as the UEteam should have since the very start of the OO/Calc project. That's why I addressed my original message to everybody who might start feeling concerned after the issue being brouhgt to attention clearly. (In case anybody would like to discuss this issue or specific details with me outside this Questions forum: you're welcome.) All this on your mind now, please think again about significance and impact of suggestions in my original message dated 2007-07-02 and additional info dated 2007-04-24. Regards, Jan "Eike Rathke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in bericht news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Hi Jan, > > On Wednesday, 2007-07-04 02:03:29 +0200, Jan Sax wrote: > >> But in my opinion, that reproach would implicate that OO would have to >> behave better than OOXML as far as ISO 8601 is concerned. If that would >> be >> true, I fail to understand why ISO 8601 complete extended date >> representation isn't DEFAULT in all OOo general and local versions. > > You're mixing up two different things: ODF file format and UI > representation. In ODF the date/time values _are_ stored in ISO 8601 > format. How they are represented to the user depends on the locale she > works in and the number (date) format assigned to display the value. > >> Of course, any user should be able to change CELL level format to >> localized >> date format representation. But basically, the ONLY correct formula bar >> representation should ALWAYS be according to ISO 8601 complete extended >> format. > > Why? Most users expect to see and edit in the format they're used to, > which still is their localized format. You might want to discuss this > in-depth with the User Experience team though. > >> As should be the DEFAULT cell format in any localized OO version >> BEFORE intentionally applying a localized format. For unambiguous data: >> the >> latter only to be chosen if one is sure that ones data never would cross >> national boundaries. > > The data is unambiguous, as stored in an unambiguous ISO 8601 format. > For unambiguous display it usually is sufficient to not assign any > locale specific date format, the default display format chosen then > simply is that of the system the user works on or of the default locale > chosen in the application under Tools -> Options -> Language Settings. > > Eike > > -- > OOo/SO Calc core developer. Number formatter stricken i18n > transpositionizer. > OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS > Please don't send personal mail to this [EMAIL PROTECTED] account, which I use > for > mailing lists only and don't read from outside Sun. Use [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
