Thanks you and everybody for all the responses.  I will be referencing these
emails when I argue my point.  I'm pushing Wicket as the framework of choice
and have already convinced the developers and two of the architects.  I just
got to get the managers on my side.  I will keep everyone posted.  Thanks
again, much obliged.

- rm3


gumnaam wrote:
> 
> Well here's our story, if it helps you.
> 
> Traditionally we had a JSP+Struts+EJB2 model for all our projects.
> 
> For our current project we decided to jump on the JEE5 bandwagon, and
> started out with JSF+EJB3 (SLSB)+ JPA,
> 
> Now JSF and JSPs don't mix well, so we choose Facelets, and instead of 
> struts we
> decided to use Seam, as that was the only available glue between the Web 
> and EJB tier.
> 
> So we had to learn JSF, Seam, Facelets, EJB3 and JPA. Now seam is no 
> good without
> Stateful Session Beans so we had to change our SLSBs to Stateful Session 
> Beans, and
> we had all sort of problems with Extended Persistence Context, not to 
> mention, most developers
> hated Seam as it was very buggy in those days (late 2006, early 2007).
> We also had a remote EJB3 API layer, and JPA managed entities 
> (especially the ones with
> lazy loading relationships) don't mix too well with remoting.
> 
> And even after learning all these new technologies, our web pages, were 
> still lacking all the
> fancy AJAX stuff. Now we had to learn Icefaces or ajax4jsf .
> 
> Every body hated every aspect of this development model.
> 
> Now we have a much saner development environment. Wicket + EJB3 (bcoz we 
> still need remoting) +
> Spring + iBatis. If we didn't need that EJB remoting layer I would drop 
> EJB3 like a hot potato.
> 
> My advice, don't worry about the industry standard thing, if you have 
> good developers ,
> then go with Wicket.
> 
> The first time I hooked up AjaxFallBackDefaultDataTable with my Spring 
> DAO + iBatis, It nearly
> brought tears to my eyes. Using iBaits I am able to do 
> sorting,filtering,paginating all in the Database,
> (as it should be done, instead of storing huge datasets in memory and 
> doing it in code), and the
> DataTable Component gives me all the hooks to plug this in so smoothly. 
> Can't think how I would
> have managed this with JSF and JPA.
> 
> So use Wicket for Web and iBatis for ORM. :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> robert.mcguinness wrote:
>> ...to tell you the truth, it impressed the developers but I didn't get
>> that
>> feeling from the top brass.  I am pretty sure we will move towards
>> Seam/JSF/Facelets (we have a presentation on that tech next week given by
>> another developer) since it is "standard".
>>
>> Has anyone here worked with the Seam tech?  All the examples I have seen
>> (including Facelets) is nothing but tag soup with scriptlets in the page
>> (albeit small).  The configuration for a Seam project seems like a pain
>> and
>> was also told that the JSF/Seam/Faclets jsp pages can be previewed in a
>> browser (something I thought was so clever about Wicket html pages...and
>> I
>> was under the impression that Wicket was the only tech that allowed true
>> separation of concerns; allowing the web designer to work independenly of
>> the programmer with no duplication of work between the two).  Maybe I'm
>> blind to Wicket and I'm overlooking Seam and the techs related to it?  
>>
>> I've worked with Freemarker and Struts before and Wicket feels like
>> "natural" web development.  I thought I covered all the great concepts
>> about
>> Wicket: Ajax, Templating, Inheritance, Reusable Components, OO
>> Concepts…etc…
>>
>> Bah…just venting.  I’m going to have to win the votes of the developers. 
>> I’ll keep everyone posted.  Thanks amigos!
>>
>> - rm3
>>
>>   
> 
> 
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