I'm a bit skeptical about duplicating tickets in JIRA & Trello for some reasons
1 Single Point Of Failure. As you said yourself: "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, *I would manually add those cards to Trello*." This would mean that you become the SPOF for JIRA/Trello synchronization process. What if tomorrow you have an accident (I'm not hoping for this of course) and are unavailable for a long time ? I believe that the idea of community hold projects like Apache projects is to spread responsibility and risks to avoid having a Single Point Of Failure. If the synchronization between Trello and JIRA can be automatized then it will be fine. 2. Decision transparency & shared responsibility I quote: "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and *only take what in my opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin* and then, yes, I would manually add those cards to Trello." Again, this selection process of what is mid/high level features for Zeppelin should be done through community discussion on public space, based on clear evidence of why people think such or such features are important, not by a single person. At least that is how I understood about community-led projects philosophy. Regards Duy Hai DOAN On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Marko Galesic < marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > Hi moon, > > > > - Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for > non-developers. > > > > No, Trello would only reflect issues created in JIRA. Users could go > through JIRA or the mailing list to have new tickets created. > > > > - And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello. > > > > No issues would be created in JIRA through Trello. However, the vote on a > card in Trello would be reflected back into the corresponding JIRA ticket. > > > > - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello > > > > No issue would be created in JIRA from Trello. However, since I only > create cards in Trello based off of tickets in JIRA (e.g. ZEPPELIN-35 is > the “Icons with Tooltips” card in Trello under “UI”), the votes from that > card would get linked to the votes in the appropriate JIRA ticket. For now, > this would be a manual process, but I don’t see a reason it couldn’t be > automated. > > > > - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone > manually add to Trello? > > > > My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are mid > to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I would manually add > those cards to Trello. > > > > - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not > synchronized between trello and JIRA) > > > > This is where it would be more open than JIRA. Users would have an easier > way to vote on things, and, no, they would not need an Apache account. > However, existing users with apache accounts could still sign up with > Trello. I wasn’t planning on having a way of tracking who specifically > voted, my thought is that, again, votes would be used in part of the > process of feature prioritization - **not** replacing it. > > > > - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool > that is easier than Trello for end-users? > > > > Either this easier-to-use layer will stop existing or somebody would > volunteer to maintain the next version. I don’t know about the history of > ASF well enough, but I’m assuming ASF did not always use JIRA for issue > tracking and that it may have been an organic process to get JIRA as a the > de facto issue tracker for ASF. > > > > - Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make > easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the > same problem. > > > > Sure. I did a quick Google search and did find Zapier – however that’s > pay-to-use at a certain threshold. What would you suggest? > > > > Good questions J. > > > > Marko > > *From:* moon soo Lee [mailto:m...@apache.org] > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 5:01 AM > *To:* users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org > > *Subject:* Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache > Zeppelin > > > > Hi, > > > > I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to use two > separate issue tracker. > > > > In my understanding, problem is, > > * JIRA is not friendly to non-developers. > > > > Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is, > > * Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for > non-developers. > > * And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello. > > > > To me, It's not clear that > > - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello > > - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone manually > add to Trello? > > - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not synchronized > between trello and JIRA) > > - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that is > easier than Trello for end-users? > > > > My opinion is, > > Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy > instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the same > problem. > > > > Thanks, > > moon > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic < > marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > > Alexander, > > -- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted > JIRA, but together with it > > Yes > > -- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's > feedback > > Yes > > -- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the > d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project > developers to use it? > > I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the Trello > board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello to JIRA + to > use those votes as a factor in feature development prioritization, then the > next step would be to open a thread on d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org. > Alexander, do you want to create the thread or should I? I am willing to > explain the idea to devs. > > The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member of > Trello will be able to vote. > > > I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also happy > to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have. > > > The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA tickets. > Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, but > developers may get information from end-users that way. > > Those are my thoughts, > Marko > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzu...@nflabs.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache > Zeppelin > > Guys, > > thank you for great suggestions! > > Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA, > but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a tool for > prioritizing user's feedback? > > Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the > d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project > developers to use it? > > Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can not > do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler and more > user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback. > > Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth supporting > two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor of making an > experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody volunteers to manage > second one. > > What do you think? > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic < > marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > > Hello A B! > > > > > > > > I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s > > voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order > to vote. > > You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account > > through Trello. > > > > > > > > I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool: > > http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-b > > oard/ > > > > > > > > Marko > > > > > > > > From: A B [mailto:netzbewoh...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM > > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org > > > > > > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache > > Zeppelin > > > > > > > > Hi guys! > > > > I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support > it. > > So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this. > > > > > > > > I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to > > prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with > > various JIRA > > workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before > > :) > > > > > > > > Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic > > <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > > > > Hi moon, > > > > > > > > I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems. > > However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what > > I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem > > to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users – > > edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs > > to be a separation between what the users want and backend > > implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering > > engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I > > want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll > > keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware > > of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they > like the idea. > > > > > > > > There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing > > stuff, if I did: > > > > 1. I don’t have access to edit JIRA > > > > 2. Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the > > issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which > > is a guess, at best, right now). > > > > > > > > The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use > > the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an > > indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are > > curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project, > > so there is some inherent protection against trolls. > > > > > > > > ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to > > JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway --- > > > > > > > > I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de > > facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem. > > > > > > > > Those are my thoughts, > > > > Marko > > > > > > > > From: moon soo Lee [mailto:m...@apache.org] > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM > > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org > > Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger > > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache > > Zeppelin > > > > > > > > Hi Marko Galesic, > > > > > > > > Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking > > involvement. > > > > > > > > About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice > job. > > > > > > > > In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to > > get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right? > > > > > > > > Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people > > who feels less comfortable of using JIRA. > > > > > > > > However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for > > different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin > > directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache > community. > > > > It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be > > discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be anything, > we'll figure out. > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > moon > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic > > <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to > > maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to > > maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community > > would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending > > this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board > > should be handled by somebody other than the users, however. > > > > > > > > I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin > > I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put > > them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open > > to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level > > reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA. > > > > > > > > I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their > > Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content > > creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed > > mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on Xbox > and Playstation): > > https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap > > > > > > > > There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI, > > Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card > > tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be > > implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set > > up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve > > also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to > > become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”. > > > > > > > > This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also > > does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a > > ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very > > few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own, > > internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular. > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > Marko Galesic > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -- > Kind regards, > Alexander. >
