Hi, If you think the problem is too much information to end-users, How about using label and filter in JIRA? If you're willing to manage some issues from JIRA to Trello manually, I think it's easy for you to managing labels and filters for end-users. And then, if you or someone shares that fileter via mailing list, It's very good contribution for community, and end-users vote some features for ease because JIRA already has a vote system and registering a watchers and so on. they don't need to know a specific issue number and check it manaually.
Regards, JL On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Marko Galesic < marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > DuyHai, > > That all makes sense. I’ve cc’d a co-worker that’s willing to help out so > that I’m not a single point of failure on this effort. His name is Aleks. > > As for the second, I’m completely open to doing this through the community. > > Moon, > > What you've linked is fine. It uses JIRA, and, in some ways, is simpler > than JIRA, but there is still too much information there for the end user. > > Here is my argument. End-users don't care about ticket numbers nor about > categories like "Major", "Minor", or "Bug". What they want is a high-mid > level summary of what's there, the direction of the project, and the > ability to be able to affect change. I doubt most customers of Windows want > to know ticket numbers, or what category the feature they use falls into. > > Marko > > -----Original Message----- > From: shaposh...@gmail.com [mailto:shaposh...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of > Roman Shaposhnik > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:22 PM > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache > Zeppelin > > Huge +1 to leveraging JIRA functionality here. Conveging contributors to > the ASF projects web presence is usually very helpful. > > If you guys need any help with JIRA -- please let me know. > > Thanks, > Roman. > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 6:19 PM, moon soo Lee <m...@apache.org> wrote: > > Thanks Marko Galesic for explanation what you think. > > Now, my understanding is, issues are created only from JIRA, and votes > > are transferred from Trello to JIRA. > > > > I agree on make end-user participation more easy. > > However, synchronizing two different issue tracker sounds very easy to > > be error prone whether they are automated or not. I think we should > > consider simpler solution first before we go complicated one. > > Also Duy Hai DOAN raised very valid concerns. > > > > I think JIRA Dashboard have enough flexibility to make Trello like board. > > One example is > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=12317510 > . > > With instructions for how to create issue, how to vote on issue, i > > believe it helps end-user participation without introducing much > complexity. > > > > Best, > > moon > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:24 PM DuyHai Doan <doanduy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> I'm a bit skeptical about duplicating tickets in JIRA & Trello for > >> some reasons > >> > >> 1 Single Point Of Failure. > >> > >> As you said yourself: "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only > >> take what in my opinion are mid to high level features within > >> Zeppelin and then, yes, I would manually add those cards to Trello." > >> > >> This would mean that you become the SPOF for JIRA/Trello > >> synchronization process. What if tomorrow you have an accident (I'm > >> not hoping for this of > >> course) and are unavailable for a long time ? > >> > >> I believe that the idea of community hold projects like Apache > >> projects is to spread responsibility and risks to avoid having a > >> Single Point Of Failure. If the synchronization between Trello and > >> JIRA can be automatized then it will be fine. > >> > >> > >> 2. Decision transparency & shared responsibility > >> > >> I quote: "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my > >> opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, > >> I would manually add those cards to Trello." > >> > >> Again, this selection process of what is mid/high level features for > >> Zeppelin should be done through community discussion on public space, > >> based on clear evidence of why people think such or such features are > >> important, not by a single person. At least that is how I understood > >> about community-led projects philosophy. > >> > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Duy Hai DOAN > >> > >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Marko Galesic > >> <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi moon, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> - Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for > >>> non-developers. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No, Trello would only reflect issues created in JIRA. Users could go > >>> through JIRA or the mailing list to have new tickets created. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> - And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No issues would be created in JIRA through Trello. However, the vote > >>> on a card in Trello would be reflected back into the corresponding > JIRA ticket. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No issue would be created in JIRA from Trello. However, since I only > >>> create cards in Trello based off of tickets in JIRA (e.g. > >>> ZEPPELIN-35 is the “Icons with Tooltips” card in Trello under “UI”), > >>> the votes from that card would get linked to the votes in the > >>> appropriate JIRA ticket. For now, this would be a manual process, > >>> but I don’t see a reason it couldn’t be automated. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will > someone > >>> manually add to Trello? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are > >>> mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I would > >>> manually add those cards to Trello. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not > >>> synchronized between trello and JIRA) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> This is where it would be more open than JIRA. Users would have an > >>> easier way to vote on things, and, no, they would not need an Apache > account. > >>> However, existing users with apache accounts could still sign up > >>> with Trello. I wasn’t planning on having a way of tracking who > >>> specifically voted, my thought is that, again, votes would be used > >>> in part of the process of feature prioritization - *not* replacing it. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other > tool > >>> that is easier than Trello for end-users? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Either this easier-to-use layer will stop existing or somebody would > >>> volunteer to maintain the next version. I don’t know about the > >>> history of ASF well enough, but I’m assuming ASF did not always use > >>> JIRA for issue tracking and that it may have been an organic process > >>> to get JIRA as a the de facto issue tracker for ASF. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> - Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make > >>> easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also > >>> solve the same problem. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Sure. I did a quick Google search and did find Zapier – however > >>> that’s pay-to-use at a certain threshold. What would you suggest? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Good questions J. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Marko > >>> > >>> From: moon soo Lee [mailto:m...@apache.org] > >>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:01 AM > >>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org > >>> > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in > >>> Apache Zeppelin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to > >>> use two separate issue tracker. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> In my understanding, problem is, > >>> > >>> * JIRA is not friendly to non-developers. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is, > >>> > >>> * Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for > >>> non-developers. > >>> > >>> * And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> To me, It's not clear that > >>> > >>> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello > >>> > >>> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone > >>> manually add to Trello? > >>> > >>> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not > >>> synchronized between trello and JIRA) > >>> > >>> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that > >>> is easier than Trello for end-users? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> My opinion is, > >>> > >>> Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy > >>> instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve > >>> the same problem. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> moon > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic > >>> <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Alexander, > >>> > >>> -- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF > >>> hosted JIRA, but together with it > >>> > >>> Yes > >>> > >>> -- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's > >>> feedback > >>> > >>> Yes > >>> > >>> -- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to > >>> the d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project > >>> developers to use it? > >>> > >>> I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the > >>> Trello board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello > >>> to JIRA > >>> + to use those votes as a factor in feature development > >>> + prioritization, then > >>> the next step would be to open a thread on > >>> d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org. Alexander, do you want to create > >>> the thread or should I? I am willing to explain the idea to devs. > >>> > >>> The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member > >>> of Trello will be able to vote. > >>> > >>> > >>> I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also > >>> happy to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have. > >>> > >>> > >>> The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA > tickets. > >>> Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, > >>> but developers may get information from end-users that way. > >>> > >>> Those are my thoughts, > >>> Marko > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzu...@nflabs.com] > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM > >>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org > >>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in > >>> Apache Zeppelin > >>> > >>> Guys, > >>> > >>> thank you for great suggestions! > >>> > >>> Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted > >>> JIRA, but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a > >>> tool for prioritizing user's feedback? > >>> > >>> Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to > >>> the d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project > >>> developers to use it? > >>> > >>> Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can > >>> not do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler > >>> and more user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback. > >>> > >>> Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth > >>> supporting two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor > >>> of making an experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody > >>> volunteers to manage second one. > >>> > >>> What do you think? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic > >>> <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > >>> > Hello A B! > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the > >>> > board’s voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello > >>> > member in order to vote. > >>> > You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account > >>> > through Trello. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool: > >>> > http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trel > >>> > lo-b > >>> > oard/ > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Marko > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: A B [mailto:netzbewoh...@gmail.com] > >>> > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM > >>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in > >>> > Apache Zeppelin > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Hi guys! > >>> > > >>> > I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would > >>> > support it. > >>> > So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process > >>> > to prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with > >>> > various JIRA > >>> > workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it > >>> > before > >>> > :) > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic > >>> > <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Hi moon, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two > systems. > >>> > However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve > >>> > what I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA > >>> > and seem to be end users; however, I speculate that these are > >>> > advanced users – edging on developers rather than purely data > >>> > scientists. There needs to be a separation between what the users > >>> > want and backend implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily > >>> > tell the rendering engineer how to program a photo-realistic > >>> > renderer; he just says “I want it to be easier to do X and be able > >>> > to better control Y”. I’ll keep maintaining the board. You are at > >>> > least one person that is aware of it, and there may be others. > >>> > I’ve talked with co-workers, and they like the idea. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing > >>> > stuff, if I did: > >>> > > >>> > 1. I don’t have access to edit JIRA > >>> > > >>> > 2. Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of > the > >>> > issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, > >>> > which is a guess, at best, right now). > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > The real thought behind all of this is that the community would > >>> > use the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an > >>> > indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards > >>> > are curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric > >>> > project, so there is some inherent protection against trolls. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board > >>> > to JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway --- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become > >>> > the de facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Those are my thoughts, > >>> > > >>> > Marko > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: moon soo Lee [mailto:m...@apache.org] > >>> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM > >>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org > >>> > Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger > >>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in > >>> > Apache Zeppelin > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Hi Marko Galesic, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking > >>> > involvement. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did > >>> > nice job. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello > >>> > board to get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and > feedbacks. right? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely > >>> > people who feels less comfortable of using JIRA. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for > >>> > different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin > >>> > directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with > >>> > Apache community. > >>> > > >>> > It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be > >>> > discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be > >>> > anything, we'll figure out. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > What do you think? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Thanks, > >>> > > >>> > moon > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic > >>> > <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Hi all, > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be > >>> > willing to maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d > >>> > be willing to maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in > >>> > the community would market it to those who would use it (users). > >>> > I’ll be sending this to my company’s data scientists. The > >>> > administration of the board should be handled by somebody other than > the users, however. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I’ve started one here: > >>> > https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin > >>> > I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and > >>> > put them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. > >>> > I’m open to feedback + adding administrators since this is really > >>> > a high level reflection of what already exists in the Apache > Zeppelin JIRA. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their > >>> > Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content > >>> > creation platform for games ranging from small independently > >>> > developed mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles > >>> > that ship on Xbox and Playstation): > >>> > https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI, > >>> > Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card > >>> > tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would > >>> > be implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board > >>> > I’ve set up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account > >>> > can vote). I’ve also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays > >>> > inactive, it starts to become transparent. The only card tag right > now is “Wishlist/Backlog”. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it > >>> > also does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that > >>> > need a ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – > >>> > there are very few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games > >>> > has their own, internal ticket tracking system that is much more > granular. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Thank you, > >>> > > >>> > Marko Galesic > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> -- > >>> Kind regards, > >>> Alexander. > >> > >> > > > -- 이종열, Jongyoul Lee, 李宗烈 http://madeng.net
