Huge +1 to leveraging JIRA functionality here. Conveging contributors to the ASF projects web presence is usually very helpful.
If you guys need any help with JIRA -- please let me know. Thanks, Roman. On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 6:19 PM, moon soo Lee <m...@apache.org> wrote: > Thanks Marko Galesic for explanation what you think. > Now, my understanding is, issues are created only from JIRA, and votes are > transferred from Trello to JIRA. > > I agree on make end-user participation more easy. > However, synchronizing two different issue tracker sounds very easy to be > error prone whether they are automated or not. I think we should consider > simpler solution first before we go complicated one. > Also Duy Hai DOAN raised very valid concerns. > > I think JIRA Dashboard have enough flexibility to make Trello like board. > One example is > https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=12317510. > With instructions for how to create issue, how to vote on issue, i believe > it helps end-user participation without introducing much complexity. > > Best, > moon > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:24 PM DuyHai Doan <doanduy...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I'm a bit skeptical about duplicating tickets in JIRA & Trello for some >> reasons >> >> 1 Single Point Of Failure. >> >> As you said yourself: "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take >> what in my opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, >> yes, I would manually add those cards to Trello." >> >> This would mean that you become the SPOF for JIRA/Trello synchronization >> process. What if tomorrow you have an accident (I'm not hoping for this of >> course) and are unavailable for a long time ? >> >> I believe that the idea of community hold projects like Apache projects is >> to spread responsibility and risks to avoid having a Single Point Of >> Failure. If the synchronization between Trello and JIRA can be automatized >> then it will be fine. >> >> >> 2. Decision transparency & shared responsibility >> >> I quote: "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my >> opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I >> would manually add those cards to Trello." >> >> Again, this selection process of what is mid/high level features for >> Zeppelin should be done through community discussion on public space, based >> on clear evidence of why people think such or such features are important, >> not by a single person. At least that is how I understood about >> community-led projects philosophy. >> >> >> Regards >> >> Duy Hai DOAN >> >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Marko Galesic >> <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi moon, >>> >>> >>> >>> - Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for >>> non-developers. >>> >>> >>> >>> No, Trello would only reflect issues created in JIRA. Users could go >>> through JIRA or the mailing list to have new tickets created. >>> >>> >>> >>> - And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello. >>> >>> >>> >>> No issues would be created in JIRA through Trello. However, the vote on a >>> card in Trello would be reflected back into the corresponding JIRA ticket. >>> >>> >>> >>> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello >>> >>> >>> >>> No issue would be created in JIRA from Trello. However, since I only >>> create cards in Trello based off of tickets in JIRA (e.g. ZEPPELIN-35 is the >>> “Icons with Tooltips” card in Trello under “UI”), the votes from that card >>> would get linked to the votes in the appropriate JIRA ticket. For now, this >>> would be a manual process, but I don’t see a reason it couldn’t be >>> automated. >>> >>> >>> >>> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone >>> manually add to Trello? >>> >>> >>> >>> My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are mid >>> to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I would manually add >>> those cards to Trello. >>> >>> >>> >>> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not >>> synchronized between trello and JIRA) >>> >>> >>> >>> This is where it would be more open than JIRA. Users would have an easier >>> way to vote on things, and, no, they would not need an Apache account. >>> However, existing users with apache accounts could still sign up with >>> Trello. I wasn’t planning on having a way of tracking who specifically >>> voted, my thought is that, again, votes would be used in part of the process >>> of feature prioritization - *not* replacing it. >>> >>> >>> >>> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool >>> that is easier than Trello for end-users? >>> >>> >>> >>> Either this easier-to-use layer will stop existing or somebody would >>> volunteer to maintain the next version. I don’t know about the history of >>> ASF well enough, but I’m assuming ASF did not always use JIRA for issue >>> tracking and that it may have been an organic process to get JIRA as a the >>> de facto issue tracker for ASF. >>> >>> >>> >>> - Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make >>> easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the >>> same problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sure. I did a quick Google search and did find Zapier – however that’s >>> pay-to-use at a certain threshold. What would you suggest? >>> >>> >>> >>> Good questions J. >>> >>> >>> >>> Marko >>> >>> From: moon soo Lee [mailto:m...@apache.org] >>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:01 AM >>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org >>> >>> >>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache >>> Zeppelin >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> >>> I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to use >>> two separate issue tracker. >>> >>> >>> >>> In my understanding, problem is, >>> >>> * JIRA is not friendly to non-developers. >>> >>> >>> >>> Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is, >>> >>> * Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for >>> non-developers. >>> >>> * And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello. >>> >>> >>> >>> To me, It's not clear that >>> >>> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello >>> >>> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone manually >>> add to Trello? >>> >>> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not >>> synchronized between trello and JIRA) >>> >>> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that is >>> easier than Trello for end-users? >>> >>> >>> >>> My opinion is, >>> >>> Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy >>> instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the same >>> problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> moon >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic >>> <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: >>> >>> Alexander, >>> >>> -- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted >>> JIRA, but together with it >>> >>> Yes >>> >>> -- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's >>> feedback >>> >>> Yes >>> >>> -- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the >>> d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project developers >>> to use it? >>> >>> I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the >>> Trello board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello to JIRA >>> + to use those votes as a factor in feature development prioritization, then >>> the next step would be to open a thread on >>> d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org. Alexander, do you want to create the >>> thread or should I? I am willing to explain the idea to devs. >>> >>> The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member of >>> Trello will be able to vote. >>> >>> >>> I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also >>> happy to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have. >>> >>> >>> The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA tickets. >>> Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, but >>> developers may get information from end-users that way. >>> >>> Those are my thoughts, >>> Marko >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzu...@nflabs.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM >>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org >>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache >>> Zeppelin >>> >>> Guys, >>> >>> thank you for great suggestions! >>> >>> Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA, >>> but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a tool for >>> prioritizing user's feedback? >>> >>> Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the >>> d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project developers >>> to use it? >>> >>> Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can not >>> do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler and more >>> user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback. >>> >>> Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth supporting >>> two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor of making an >>> experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody volunteers to manage second >>> one. >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic >>> <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: >>> > Hello A B! >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s >>> > voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order >>> > to vote. >>> > You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account >>> > through Trello. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool: >>> > http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-b >>> > oard/ >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Marko >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: A B [mailto:netzbewoh...@gmail.com] >>> > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM >>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org >>> > >>> > >>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache >>> > Zeppelin >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Hi guys! >>> > >>> > I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support >>> > it. >>> > So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to >>> > prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with >>> > various JIRA >>> > workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before >>> > :) >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic >>> > <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi moon, >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems. >>> > However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what >>> > I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem >>> > to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users – >>> > edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs >>> > to be a separation between what the users want and backend >>> > implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering >>> > engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I >>> > want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll >>> > keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware >>> > of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they >>> > like the idea. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing >>> > stuff, if I did: >>> > >>> > 1. I don’t have access to edit JIRA >>> > >>> > 2. Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the >>> > issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which >>> > is a guess, at best, right now). >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use >>> > the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an >>> > indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are >>> > curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project, >>> > so there is some inherent protection against trolls. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to >>> > JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway --- >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de >>> > facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Those are my thoughts, >>> > >>> > Marko >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: moon soo Lee [mailto:m...@apache.org] >>> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM >>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org >>> > Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger >>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache >>> > Zeppelin >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Hi Marko Galesic, >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking >>> > involvement. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice >>> > job. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to >>> > get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people >>> > who feels less comfortable of using JIRA. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for >>> > different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin >>> > directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache >>> > community. >>> > >>> > It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be >>> > discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be >>> > anything, we'll figure out. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > What do you think? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > moon >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic >>> > <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi all, >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to >>> > maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to >>> > maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community >>> > would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending >>> > this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board >>> > should be handled by somebody other than the users, however. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin >>> > I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put >>> > them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open >>> > to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level >>> > reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their >>> > Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content >>> > creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed >>> > mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on >>> > Xbox and Playstation): >>> > https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI, >>> > Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card >>> > tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be >>> > implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set >>> > up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve >>> > also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to >>> > become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also >>> > does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a >>> > ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very >>> > few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own, >>> > internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Thank you, >>> > >>> > Marko Galesic >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Kind regards, >>> Alexander. >> >> >
