On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:02:05  
 Jim Elwell wrote:
>At 01:34 PM 12 July 2002 -0700, Ma Be wrote:
>>On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:52:23
>>  Jim Elwell wrote:
>> >...Europeans are hardly the only people using or promoting the metric 
>> system,
>> >and hardly deserve sole credit for its spread.
>> >
>>Perhaps so.  However, Anglo-saxons in general are *certainly* the ones 
>>(maybe even the ONLY ones) fighting it!!!
>
>Interesting that someone from Brazil and Canada does not take firmer 
>exception to Madan's giving credit for metrication to Europeans. I agree 
>with your second statement.
>
Well...  I guess that it's just that we acknowledge that Europe is the birthplace of 
the SI system.  Evidently we did metricate our countries on our own, however, we do 
not (or have not, so far) get involved with metrication issues outside our respective 
countries, except for those in this group, evidently...
...
>Perhaps I used the word confusingly; by "socialization" I mean "degree of 
>government-forced socialism." One does not have to live in Europe to know 
>that, politically, most European countries are substantially more socialist 
>than the USA.
>
Wait a second here, Jim, please.  Noone *forced* socialistic types of regimes in 
Europe.  Practically all countries in Europe that follow these regimes CHOSE to be so 
via democratic elections!!!

BTW, I do like some of these "regimes", as I feel they have tremendous advantages in 
many aspects like health care (like in Canada...  ;-)   ).
...
>I know perfectly well that my views are somewhat "radical" or "overboard" 
>to many list members. I still wonder why so many members of this listserver 
>have what are, to me, such radical socialist views (again, using 
>"socialist" in its political meaning).
>
I honestly see nothing wrong in espousing a more... "socialist" view of certain 
aspects of society's life, Jim.  Democracy is NOT hurt by such... "variations" IMHO.  
That's perhaps where I and other members here would part company with your views.

>>But, I guess the main point that Madan was perhaps trying to make was that 
>>Americans DO push their way of life onto others, under the auspices of (or 
>>under the hideous umbrella of) marketing gimmickery!
>
>Here is where I think you go overboard, Marcus: -- blaming the success of 
>American companies in other countries on their "marketing gimmickery."

First of all, who talked about "success" here?!  Second of all, you unfortunately seem 
to fail to recognize the *TREMENDOUS* power of marketing, propaganda, the media, etc!  
This is part of the heart of the problem, my friend.  Therefore, I respectfully 
disagree, my dear friend.  And it's not a matter of "blaming" Americans for this.  As 
I mentioned earlier, you guys are the undisputed kings of this wonderful business 
tool.  It's just that you unfortunately use this too much in favor of your own values, 
beliefs, etc, something (which I hope you will agree, at least to a certain extent) 
that helps fuel anti-Americanism around the world (just please think about it).
 
>Marketing can get someone to buy a product, but it cannot keep them coming 
>back. McDonalds, et. al. are successful because PEOPLE LIKE THEIR PRODUCT!! 
>If the French did not like Big Macs, they wouldn't buy them and McDonalds 
>would sell something else or go out of business in France.
>
True, but you don't need to attach that to culture!  You see, that's the heart of the 
conundrum here.  There are many *strategies* for "globalization".  I went over what 
these are in another post sometime ago here (and I hope you remember that essay of 
mine).  The main contention is that NAC put too much emphasis on ONE of these 
strategies at the detriment of other equally worthy ones, and this causes a lot of 
resentment around, *even* if such products become... "successful"!

>To presume otherwise is to put oneself in a position of judging what is 
>best for others, and criticizing them when they behave different from that 
>judgement. You don't have to like McDonalds yourself, but I think it is 
>incorrect to claim their success is due to marketing rather than the fact 
>that people like what they sell.
>
I realize that.  What you said has merits, but again, you seem to fail to consider the 
main crux I was referring to, and that deals with business and corporate strategy 
theory.  One can be successful at selling a product *without* alienating the peoples 
these are being sold to.  

Talking about McDonald's, for instance, you probably should know that they are being 
quite smart about their strategy as they do not sell ALL their products *the same 
way*, i.e they follow a different approach adjusting their product to the *local 
taste*!  If you try their burger, for instance, they will certainly taste and will be 
dressed differently depending on where you eat them!  (Did you know that?)
>...
>Pretty much the same comment: if everyone in a country does not like the 
>"one size fits all" product from a differing country/culture, then it would 
>fail as a product.

In addition, not necessarily, Jim.  The above may be true but only to an extent.  And 
let me quote the football situation, for example, to illustrate what I mean.  This 
(sorry if I offend you or any other fan here) silly "sport" has *always* been 
unsuccessful in my country, just like the yucky grapefruit (ugh!), but you know what?  
They keep coming and coming and coming and coming!  Unbelievable!  These jerks just 
don't get it!!  I wish I could yell in their ears: HEY, you, go home and shove this 
crap...  Stop bugging us with this thing!  But does it work?  No, it doesn't, they 
just keep insisting on pushing this stuff.  !@#$%!@#$@!  "I fogo na roupa!"  :-(

 That it succeeds means some portion of the population 
>DOES like it.

And then, yes, when they find some minorities, or a market niche, then they keep at it 
to push their way into bullying others to follow suit!  If this is not an 
imperialistic appalling practice I don't know what is, Jim!

> Why do those who don't then proceed to castigate the 
>companies that provide these products?
>
We actually do in some cases, like with my football example above, but they keep 
coming and coming...  When will this nonsense stop???  How can we prevent this 
flooding and psychological bullying?  That is the question (also!).

Marcus


Is your boss reading your email? ....Probably
Keep your messages private by using Lycos Mail.
Sign up today at http://mail.lycos.com

Reply via email to