Tom,
I understand that Steve Thoburn actually did possess metric scales. So the
cost of the equipment wasn't an issue for him. I heard that although he had
the metric scales he wouldn't use them unless his customers asked for their
produce in metric. Instead he continued to use the older imperial scales
because (according to him) no one ever asked in metric.
Not all protesting traders do this though. A butcher by the name of Steve
Garrat (I think that was his name) appeared on TV with Neil Herron of the
metric martyrs campaign. He admitted when asked that he did not have the
means to serve customers in metric.
With regard to the "pound of bananas thing", I think the key point is that
although traders are required to price, weigh and sell loose goods in metric
there are no prescribed quantities. Steve Thoburn's offence was the use of
the illegal scales for the transaction (it isn't an offence to simply
possess them), it had nothing to do with the quantity sold and the so called
"pound of bananas" was incidental to it. That's the trouble with that
headline phrase, it hides the true nature of the offence and makes the law
sound more petty and restrictive than it actually is.
The other issue of course is price marking. Supplementary pricing in units
other than the mandatory one are of course allowed as a guide to customers
who wan't that information. That much is optional but the metric one has to
be there. It has been suggested both here and elsewhere that should that
option be removed it would be unenforceable. The argument is that it would
be difficult and unprecedented to ban information in circumstances where it
was a mere accompinament rather a replacement for the mandatory element, so
long as (presumably) that it isn't misleading or contradictory.
Some might maintain that the persistence of a supplementray indication,
coupled with the freedom to sell any quantity reduces things to the
equivalent of trading in both metric and imperial. Traders who suppress the
metric element by inconspicuous markings (like Tesco) may consider that
amounts to a move back toward imperial trading. I contend that it doesn't.
For, look carefully at the issue of pricing. The conversion between price/kg
and price/lb is unlikely to result in an exact equivalent in pence. The
awkward conversion factor mitigates against this. That means that one of the
unit prices is real while the other is an approximation. That's why it's
important to price and calculate the charge according to the units used in
weighing to ensure that it is done accurately.
In the end, whatever supplementary information is provided, the real trading
will be going on in metric.
Phil Hall
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Wade VMS Systems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:53 PM
Subject: [USMA:33305] A Pound of Bananas
>This is still a play on words.
No, it's not. He could have sold a pound of bananas without breaking
the law, therefore you can't say this what why he was prosecuted. Now,
if the law had banned the use of imperial units completely, then you
would be correct, as using those units would have inevitably put him on
the wrong side of the law.
At point 'A' the shop sold everything in lb/oz on machines that read lb/oz
only and most customers presumably asked for lb/oz.
And how were people who asked for 1 kg of bananas catered for ?
At point 'B' the law changed
At point 'C' the customers continue to ask for lb/oz and the machine read
as
such
At point 'D' the trader was fined because at point 'C' he hadn't made the
change of point 'B' despite 'life' still carrying on like point 'A'.
You mean he didn't upgrade his equipment which was required under the
law. Note that this still didn't prevent him from selling "a pound of
bananas". Sorry, but businesses often have to upgrade equipment to allow
for law changes, from fire escapes through wheelchair ramps to software
to handle changes to tax and accounting law. If it's required, then you
can't put compliant traders at a competitive disadvantage.
I'd find it annoying if I was a trader and had to buy new scales that read
out information in units most don't use just because the law made it so
that
those new units are the one's that traders must use despite customers
asking
in units based upon working and decent scales the trader had to chuck in
the
bin. I find it bizzare at best, autoritarian at worst. The cost of new
scales *must* feed down to the customers.
At least you are now arguing about a valid point. Did he find it annoying
?
Obviously. Was it an unreasonable requirement ? That can be argued for
and
against. Does the cost of scales feed down to the customer ? Most likely
yes,
so you could argue that it was unnecessarily expensive. Was it
authoritarian ?
Some might think so. Did it prevent him from selling bananas by the pound
?
Certainly not. Therefore the allegation that he was prosecuted for that
is
totally ludicrous, and dishonest.
The BWMA propaganda is that Steve Thorborne was prosecuted because he
was trying to offer his customers choice, and the authorities were
trying to prevent this. The opposite was the case. Steve Thorborne
could have used a dual scale to offer his customers the choice of metric
or imperial, and he would have stayed within the law. What he did was
try to *deny* his customers the ability to use metric units by using
a scale that wasn't capable of doing so, and that was why he fell foul
of the law. It is not illegal to use imperial units (despite what the
BWMA claim), but it is illegal not to provide for metric units, which are
the state's official units whether you like it or not. Similarly, where
the law requires pricing to be displayed, he has to display it in sterling
(the state's official currency). If he wants to accept Euro as well
(as many traders in Northern Ireland do), he is allowed but not compelled
to do so in addition.
Given that you claim to be in favor of consumer choice, how can you
support
the actions of this man ? I can understand why you object to metric only
pricing on that ground, but supporting the attempt to suppress metric
units simply gives the lie to the notion that it is freedom of choice that
defines your position.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Wade | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie
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