Stephen, I really don't know what you are on about. I find it strange that for a person who claims to be neutral you seem to go out of your way to make sure we all get the impression that the UK is hardly metric and people only use English units in conversations. If anything it is you who don't trust the answers given by others when they state things differently then you.
When I asked you direct questions you ignored me or gave me a type of answer that was vague and meaningless. Like doublespeak. Martin and others have given me more total answers. I almost feel like you are trying to hide something. For someone who claims to be neutral then where are your examples of metric usage in the UK? I'm drawing my conclusions from the combined responses I have read. It is common in the US to call the UK England even though England is only a part. We also use the term English to mean British. We did the same and continue to do so concerning the former Soviet Union. We collectively called it Russia, even though there were many people who live there that are not Russians. I don't see any connection between Europe and metric conversion. If my memory serves me, it was you that brought up the EU and Europe last weekend. Many if not most Americans would think Europe is the only place in the world that metric is used. It is a surprise to many that Asia, Africa, Spanish America, etc. is also metric. Maybe because most Americans see Europe as rivals, like Boeing versus Airbus. I have no feelings of trust or distrust concerning you. If you don't like my questions, comments or answers then please feel free to ignore me. You won't hurt my feelings if you do. As for the US dollar, it is obviously the most metric item that we use in the US and has been metric since inception. I can't imagine ever changing it to a system where 100 cents does not equal a dollar. Do you think it would be better if the dollar was divided fractionally instead of decimally? If so why? Jerry ________________________________ From: Stephen Humphreys <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 1:34:32 PM Subject: [USMA:42786] Re: Small item seen on TV With respect you ask direct questions which I answer but then you draw a different conclusion yourself. Should you ask - "Is medicine completely metric" I would answer "Yes, it is" - however you seem to pick items that can be ambiguously answered but you go to the most anti-imperial line of thought even if there is little evidence for it. So when you get similar answers from both Martin and myself you allow Martin's view to go unanswered but linger on the minutiae of a response by myself. And that's on answers when Martin and myself AGREE. Similarly I do not find what Pat says offensive - rather I see it as a common misconception - a bit like the "England is another name for Britain" mistake. The interesting point of that position is whether anti-EU folk are also anti-metric, or if there is no connection. However you take it as an option to make the discussion divisive. Let me guess - you're 'starting to think' that i 'cannot be trusted' and that you have 'become fully pro-metric' and would like my argument 'taken away'. What's your view on the US dollar? ________________________________ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 09:40:44 -0800 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [USMA:42749] Re: Small item seen on TV To: [email protected]; [email protected] Stephen, I just repeated a term that Pat used. If you find it offensive then speak to Pat about it. I'm learning more about the situation from this forum and I see things differently then before. I see where the use of multiple systems creates a mess. Thus I am leaning more towards completing what has been started. On the other hand I don't sense in any of your statements any neutrality either as you claimed. Jerry ________________________________ From: Stephen Humphreys <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 10:53:27 AM Subject: [USMA:42749] Re: Small item seen on TV "Anti-european" is an odd statement. The geographical area that Britain (and Ireland) belongs to is Europe.. How can this make people 'anti-european'? Would it be 'anti-my-continent'? "Jerry" - your statement some time ago of not being pro- or anti- any particular measurement system seems to be changing somewhat today.. ________________________________ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:52:57 -0800 From: [email protected] Subject: [USMA:42675] Re: Small item seen on TV To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] Pat, Since Martin and Stephen both come from the UK they may be able to tell us how much of a cost there is to be somewhere in the middle. Obviously it some effect in that it causes people to congregate in different circles depending on whether you say meters or yards. It would be interesting to hear their experiences in coping with the illusion and if they ever experience any costs directly. Those markers can't be too inconspicuous if they also function as emergency markers. So I would guess the politicians and Anti-Europeans see them too. Are they on every road in the UK? Jerry ________________________________ From: Pat Naughtin <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: U..S.. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:33:35 PM Subject: Re: [USMA:42637] Re: Small item seen on TV On 2009/01/31, at 1:58 PM, Jeremiah MacGregor wrote: Didn't someone say that all the road signs in the UK were still in miles? So what markers give km figures? Do you have both miles and km side by side in the UK? Jerry The difference is that the UK politicians have decided that road signs will be in old pre-metric measures and that the road design and construction will be done using the far more efficient metric system. The signs use old names and the markers use the modern metric system. The metric markers are the ones that the road engineers and the maintenance crews use. They are generally placed at 100 metre intervals and most of those that I noticed when I was last in the UK were quite small and painted (from memory) blue. It appeared to me that they were made to look inconspicuous so that politicians and anti-Europeans wouldn't notice them. As I have said previously, conversion is expensive, but I have no idea how much it costs UK tax payers to maintain this foolish illusion. Cheers, Pat Naughtin Geelong, Australia ________________________________ From: Stephen Humphreys <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:03:45 PM Subject: [USMA:42544] Re: Small item seen on TV Lol - Martin got his km figures from markers on the side of the motorway! (I will let him explain) I wholly disagree that people do 'speak metric', from 40 years experience. ________________________________ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:55:13 -0800 From: [email protected] Subject: [USMA:42540] Re: Small item seen on TV To: [email protected] Mike, From your description I would understand it to be that metric is used everywhere but on road signs. But road signs must be both if Martin said he was 55.7 km from London or did he just do a conversion? So people do speak in metric and don't really need to have things dumbed down as some one put it earlier. Your comments about pilots in the US explains why the last time I flew in a plane, the pilot hesitated before saying the temperature. He must have been trying to translate it from what was on his screen. Jerry ________________________________ From: Michael Payne <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:29:23 PM Subject: [USMA:42533] Re: Small item seen on TV I visit the UK perhaps 6-10 times a year, the people that I know in the UK tend to talk in meters/metres when referring to a new house size, etc. If you go into a UK hardware store it's almost all metric, supermarkets have gram scales, prices might be marked as pence/pound but normally pence/gram, it's weighed in grams. Fuel is sold in liters, road signs are all in miles and miles per hour but all road work is done in meters. In general it seems like a big mess which is why here in the US we need to do it differently, Australian/New Zealand and South Africa did a very good transition in the 60's and 70's. Most young people in those countries don't know non metric units. I'm a pilot, when I fly into the UK the atmospheric pressure is in hPa, the visibility is in meters, the runway length is in meters/feet. Temperature is Celsius, it's also Celsius for all pilots in the US. Call 703 661 2990 here in the US to listen to the weather pilots get at my local airport. Mike Payne ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremiah MacGregor To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: Sunday, 25 January 2009 17:16 Subject: [USMA:42529] Re: Small item seen on TV When you say the UK is bi, do you mean they use both metric and English equally,? 50 % ? Or is there more of a leaning towards one or the other? How are both use equally without causing confusion? Say for instance in the medical field. Would a doctor speak metric and a nurse respond in English? It must make for some strange communications. Jerry ________________________________ From: Stephen Humphreys <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 11:40:08 AM Subject: [USMA:42515] Re: Small item seen on TV Because the UK is not metric (it's 'bi') and in the case of tyre pressures there are not laws forcing the use of metric. ________________________________ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:00:18 -0800 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [USMA:42494] Re: Small item seen on TV To: [email protected]; [email protected] Stephen, I interpreted the statement to mean that bar and kPa were the most common.. It doesn't mean the is no psi, it just means it isn't very common. If the UK is metric then why would psi dominate and not kPa? Jerry ________________________________ From: Stephen Humphreys <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:27:02 AM Subject: [USMA:42494] Re: Small item seen on TV Except in the UK (which is part of Europe) where PSI dominates. Maybe you meant "Mainland Europe" ________________________________ From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: [USMA:42439] Re: Small item seen on TV Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:22:34 +0000 The most common units of measure for tyre pressures in Europe are bars or kPa. (100 kPa = 1 bar). ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] on Behalf Of Jeremiah MacGregor Sent: 24 January 2009 14:59 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:42430] Re: Small item seen on TV Harry, Aren't they suppose to be in pascals or something along that line? Jerry ________________________________ From: Harry Wyeth <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:39:58 PM Subject: [USMA:42388] Small item seen on TV A minor point of interest: on PBS's US broadcast of the BBC World News tonight, in a piece re the resumption of natural gas to Europe, there was "footage" showing close-ups of presssure gauges on pipeline fixtures out in the snowy fields. One showed pressure in kg/cm2, and the other in "bar". HARRY WYETH ________________________________ Share your photos with Windows Live Photos – Free Find out more! ________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail just got better. Find out more! ________________________________ Share your photos with Windows Live Photos – Free Try it Now! Cheers, Pat Naughtin PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, Geelong, Australia Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. See http://www.metricationmatters.com for more metrication information, contact Pat at [email protected] or to get the free 'Metrication matters' newsletter go to: http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to subscribe. ________________________________ Share your photos with Windows Live Photos – Free Try it Now! ________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail just got better. Find out more!
