I have a weekly bell ringing practice in Washington, DC. It requires parking on 12th St. NW between Constitution and Pennsylvania Aves. D.C. has a parking meter system in that area that requires going to a nearby kiosk and buying a timed ticket, which you then put on your dashboard. It takes coins and credit cards, no paper money (to take paper money would grossly increase the complexity of the kiosk). Usually I park for two hours and that is $4.00.
I always use four dollar coins. It is much easier than carrying around then stuffing in 16 quarters. The conventional meters (on poles, one meter per parking space) are older and do not take dollar coins yet. The vending machines at work and the Washington Metro fare card machines all take dollar coins. Much easier than trying to get the paper money reader to accept a faded dollar bill. (And that paper money reader costs something like $400, which is why the vending machine operators would love to get rid of them.) The dollar is the new quarter, that is, what you could buy with a quarter 20-30 years ago is now a dollar or more. And no one back then was demanding a “paper quarter.” Getting rid of the low-value paper dollar is absolutely sensible, will save money, and is good and responsible government action. We will go back to doing what we did when we were kids: paying for small purchases with coins only, and the coins not building up on our dressers. Only now a “small purchase” is $2.50 and not $0.25. The attitude of people toward this change is very on topic as it is the same attitude, the same mindset, that is hindering metrication. “I don’t like change. Don’t tell me to change.” People in a representative democracy do not get to vote on every little thing; government and society would cease to function. If you don’t like what your representative is doing, vote for someone else next time, assuming he is not worse than the person you want to replace. Carleton From: Kilopascal [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 09:56 To: [email protected]; U.S. Metric Association Subject: Re: [USMA:51248] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> Addendum to my previous email: As of 2011, dollar coins are not widely encountered in US commerce, except in vending machines for rides on <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_transit> mass transit, some <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_and_display> pay and display machines, some laundromats, and old-fashioned <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_machine> slot machines. Most vending machines and parking meters have been redesigned, however, to accept dollar coins for purchase over a quarter-dollar.[citation needed <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed> ] The Sacagawea dollar has achieved popularity in <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuador> Ecuador, where the US dollar is <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollarization> also the official currency.[18] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_coin_%28United_States%29#cite_note-numismatist-17> http://money.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home <http://money.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&CONTENTID=6241&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm> &CONTENTID=6241&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_coin_%28United_States%29 From: John M. Steele <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Friday, 2011-10-21 06:41 To: Kilopascal <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [USMA:51248] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> Yes, the $600M is a "red herring." Politicians lie. (or are stupid. The guy may not have bothered to gather readily available facts.) However, it is not clear whether coins in circulation are increasing or decreasing. The Mint caught on to a scam with their free shipping policy. People were buying large numbers of $1 coins with credit cards and collecting airline miles, cash back, etc. They were then depositing the coins at their bank to pay the credit card bill, flooding the banks with dollar coins they didn't want. Many banks were returning them. The ebb and flow of this scam is a little hard to sort out, but the Mint no longer accepts credit card orders. I have no idea how many of the three billion coins were part of the revolving door fund. --- On Thu, 10/20/11, Kilopascal <[email protected]> wrote: From: Kilopascal <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [USMA:51248] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, October 20, 2011, 8:26 PM I think we need to agree to disagree. But I do have a question for you. According to HR 2977, The COINS Act would require Federal Reserve Banks to stop issuing the $1 note 4 years after enactment of the legislation or when circulation of $1 coins exceeds 600 million annually – whichever comes first. Now, according to this the 4 year waiting period would be a moot time issue if there are >600 M$ in coins in circulation. According to your post: John M. Steele Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:15:08 -0700 Well, they could if they wanted to; there is plenty of coin out there. >From the GAO report I encouraged everyone to read (and form their own opinion), there is $9.5 billion in $1 bills in circulation and of $4 billion in dollar coins minted, $3 billion was circulated and is in the public's hands (or coin jars) and $1 billion (8.2 Gg of metal has to be securely stored) in Federal Reserve vaults.......... So, it seems that the amount of coins in circulation already exceeds the 600 M$ requirement by a factor of 5. So in reality, once the bill is passed, the federal reserve would be required to stop issuing one dollar bill immediately. Would you say this is correct? From: John M. Steele <http://us.mc824.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 2011-10-19 05:57 To: Kilopascal <http://us.mc824.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> Subject: Re: [USMA:51248] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> I find the two cases completely different. In metrication, if two systems exist side by side, it is difficult to compare values, people need to learn a lot of cumbersome conversions, parts don't fit together, etc. In bills/coins, we are talking about moving the breakpoint between bills and coins; the transaction is still denominated in dollars (to two decimals). If $1 bills are as inherently evil as Customary units, then so are $2, $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100 bills. All must be abolished. I don't buy it. Our system of currency is indifferent to whether a $1 amount is paid as 4 quarters, a $1 coin, a $1 bill, or a larger bill and change is given. As Sesame Street says, one of these things is not like the other. On coin vs bill, only two things matter, people's preference, and the government's costs in maintaining the amount of currency in circulation. By the way, the GAO report casts some doubt on the 30 year life of a dollar coin. The present "golden color" is basically brass and tarnishes. I agree other coins look fine after 30 years, but the present design has only been around since 2000, and we don't know how it will look in 30 years. The one's still in the Mint will look fine, but the ones in circulation may be shot. (The Suzy B, first minted in 1979, was a different metal composition. Also many were stored for years; after an initial run, they didn't mint again until 1999 because they were running out before the new Sacagawea coins were produced) I am not saying for sure the coin costs more, but the data is suspicious. IF the coin costs more, do you still have a rational reason to demand bills be eliminated? --- On Tue, 10/18/11, Kilopascal <[email protected]> wrote: From: Kilopascal <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [USMA:51248] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> To: [email protected], "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, October 18, 2011, 11:30 PM I find your last paragraph quite puzzling. Instead of coins, replace the object of force with metrication. When it is our pet project we don't have a problem if the government forces it on the nation, in fact we are frustrated because they aren't. But if it is a project we despise and the government forces it then the government is being tyrannical. So, where do we draw the line between metrication and coins? We can't have it both ways. The government does have the right under the constitution to fix the standard both for coins and measurements and when they do set the standard we the people have only one choice and that is to comply. For the stability of the nation, especially when competing with other nations, it is important for the government if it is acting in the interests of the people (not their emotional whims) to make decisions that may in fact be unpopular to some. Unfortunately the US government has not acted in the best interest of the nation and the result is quite clear to all who have their eyes open. I feel that the Caribbean nations hesitated in their metrication efforts up to now primarily because they felt the US was very important to them. But it is now obvious they no longer see the US as they once did and know very well that the US is not the power it once was. They can see what Americans refuse to see and that is that other countries are rising up to fill the vacuum being formed by the US's decline and wish to align themselves with those moving forward as opposed to backwards. We can quibble about the costs and/or benefits of coins until doomsday but while we are wasting our time and efforts, others are passing us by. What a tragic shame. Don't you agree? From: John M. Steele <http://us.mc824.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, 2011-10-18 21:36 To: Kilopascal <http://us.mc824.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> Subject: Re: [USMA:51248] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> True, but the cost of a coin is MUCH higher than that of a bill. Divide the cost of the item by the average life to compare. The coin is cheaper using their "fully accounted" costs, but the bill is cheaper using their variable cost (the cost of making incremental items). Without a lot of detail on the overhead costs, I can't sort out which cost is more representative. However, in my MBA classes, I was certainly taught to be HIGHLY suspicious of fully accounted cost when looking at product exit strategies (the issue is where does the allocated overhead go) and was taught to focus on margin over variable cost, and how it contributed to overhead and profit. It seems you just want to take away bills no matter which is more cost-effective, data be damned. As for the billions of coins, it is only one billion. If they stopped minting unwanted coins, they would be used up in about 5 years based on data in the GAO document. They could then resume production at about half the rate, and be in balance. Just forcing people to use what the government chooses to make was a characteristic of the central planners in the USSR. It tends to make the rabble rise up with pitchforks. Politicians recognize that hurts their reelection chances. --- On Tue, 10/18/11, Kilopascal <[email protected]> wrote: From: Kilopascal <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [USMA:51248] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> To: [email protected], "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, October 18, 2011, 9:18 PM 40, 48 or 63 months is not much compared to 30 years (360 months). But, whatever they are doing to increase the life of the paper bills can be added to the two dollar bill which should replace the dollar bill. I feel the dollar coin and two dollar bill should both be used instead of the one dollar bill. I think the primary reason for trying to get rid of the one dollar bill is to do something with the milliards of dollar coins sitting in warehouses. If you can't get people to voluntarily use them, then you have to force them and the only way to force them is to remove the one obstacle in the way. From: John M. Steele <http://us.mc824.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, 2011-10-18 05:47 To: Kilopascal <http://us.mc824.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> Subject: Re: [USMA:51248] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> Page 34 of the GAO report is a cover letter from Treasury. Unfortunately, their detailed technical reports are not attached. It implies they are about to greatly increase the durability of the $1 bill over the current 48 months (note GAO used 40 months, increasing the cost of bill replacement by an artificial 20%). The current 48 months greatly dilutes the savings claimed by GAO and an increase to 63 months would make the bill cheaper. Without the details, I don't know what increase Treasury is expecting to achieve. --- On Mon, 10/17/11, Kilopascal <[email protected]> wrote: From: Kilopascal <[email protected]> Subject: [USMA:51248] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> To: [email protected], "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]> Date: Monday, October 17, 2011, 8:32 PM Your NPR article is not really a counterpoint. It just points out that the government has milliards of dollar coins in storage that should be in circulation and would be if the dollar bill was taken away as it should be. Can you provide an article that would show where the paper bill would cost less than the coin? That would be a true counterpoint. [USMA:51248] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> John M. Steele Mon, 17 Oct 2011 09:55:14 -0700 A counterpoint article from NPR: http://www.npr.org/2011/06/28/137394348/-1-billion-that-nobody-wants (I guess the title they give the piece reveals their position) --- On Mon, 10/17/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [USMA:51247] RE: COINS Act H.R.2977 <Off topic> To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]> Cc: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]> Date: Monday, October 17, 2011, 12:25 PM #yiv110004600 p {margin:0;} Then there is this testimony, years ago, by one user: http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/bank/hba44338.000/hba44338_0.htm STATEMENT OF ALFRED A. OUTLAW, DIRECTOR OF REVENUE OPERATIONS, SOUTHEASTERN PENNSYLVANIA TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> Version: 2012.0.1831 / Virus Database: 2090/4558 - Release Date: 10/17/11 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> Version: 2012.0.1831 / Virus Database: 2092/4560 - Release Date: 10/18/11 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> Version: 2012.0.1831 / Virus Database: 2092/4562 - Release Date: 10/19/11 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1831 / Virus Database: 2092/4566 - Release Date: 10/21/11
