We’ve been through this one too many times to pursue some form of measurement victory. See the 3-2-1 marker board distances for reference.
Incidentally - it might sound quaint but us Welsh like the use of ‘llath’ on signs as a not-very-nationalistic type of pride over the English. That extra line took a lot of effort from my forefathers :-) Plus there's no ‘k’ in Welsh so lets not move on to longer distances ;-) > On 11 May 2020, at 9:42 pm, Martin Vlietstra <[email protected]> wrote: > > The articles from which those pictures were taken argued that “170 llath/170 > yds” should be replaced with “170 m” – one of the anomalies of British road > signage is that the displayed distance must be within 10% of the actual > distance and since 1 metre is equal to 1.09 yards, the road engineers work in > metres and then use “yds” rather than “m” when erecting the actual road sign. > > > From: Stephen Humphreys [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 11 May 2020 20:11 > To: Martin Vlietstra > Cc: John Steele; Mark Henschel; USMA List Server > Subject: Re: [USMA 1383] Re: Teaching students > > Re: picture .In the last few years the term llath goes before yards as > welsh signposts increasingly display cymraeg first > > Also - remember that the welsh fought hard for dual signage. And won > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 11 May 2020, at 6:39 pm, Martin Vlietstra <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> >> If you visit >> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmetricviews.org.uk%2F2007%2F01%2Fallow-metre-on-uk-roads%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196243177&sdata=qTWQAChB45QHFQVyg5hxo5z%2FVrPnyveepmDYxX%2FNkKs%3D&reserved=0 >> >> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmetricviews.org.uk%2F2007%2F01%2Fallow-metre-on-uk-roads%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196243177&sdata=qTWQAChB45QHFQVyg5hxo5z%2FVrPnyveepmDYxX%2FNkKs%3D&reserved=0> >> you can see a few photos that show conclusively that nowadays the “llath” >> is a synonym for the “yard”. >> >> From: USMA [mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of John Steele >> Sent: 11 May 2020 18:16 >> To: Mark Henschel >> Cc: USMA List Server >> Subject: [USMA 1380] Re: Teaching students >> >> I sincerely hope you didn't take my comment as a defense of Customary units. >> I agree metric is easier and preferable in all cases. Unfortunately some >> professions and employers insist on using the damned things. (I was >> fortunate to work in automotive, which metricated in the 70's.) My post was >> about using obsolete, ill-defined, traditional units that aren't even part >> of US Customary (or SI). Apparently a llath is or was a Welsh synonym for a >> rod or pole, not the rod or pole(16.5 ft | 5.0292 m), so it doesn't have a >> real definition, and a cigarette is worse, being the distance a man with >> variable walking speed can walk while smoking a variable length cigarette of >> variable burn rate, caused by variable inhalation rates. Male bovine >> droppings. It can't even be used indoors anymore. Hard to convert >> ill-defined units to anything meaningful. As bad as it is to work with the >> mixed-base math, all Customary units at least have strict SI definitions. >> >> In your two examples, do I have to pay for the saw kerf too (~1/8"), or just >> the cutoff piece. >> >> On Monday, May 11, 2020, 8:25:10 AM EDT, Mark Henschel >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> >> Pretend you walk into a lumber yard to buy a piece of wood, and the workers >> offer to cut a piece the length you need. The original piece of lumber is 12 >> feet, four and 5/16 ths of an inch long. You need a piece 8 feet, seven and >> 3/4 of an inch long. How long is the waste piece (that you still have to pay >> for)? >> Now you are transported to a metric universe. The lumber in the lumber yard >> is now 2.6 meters long, and you need a piece 1.83 meters long. How long is >> the waste piece now? >> Note these problems are not conversions in any sense, I just made up the >> numbers to illustrate a point. To subtract fractions using the inch-pound >> system one needs to do three or four steps, including borrowing twice, once >> from a whole inch and once from feet, turning it into 12 inches. Plus one >> needs a common denominator to do the problem. >> The inch problem takes much more time than just subtracting the decimal >> numbers. >> MArk Henschel >> >> >> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2Femail-signature%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Dwebmail&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196243177&sdata=LB74A8Wb8LO9fZ3GoQ7fYyCUuiGdZrumcNAxm6jtAws%3D&reserved=0> >> >> Virus-free. >> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196243177&sdata=fMIYN7pzYdSxQqNe%2Fh7uD1v64BmpCDmJTH5ffPgoEtg%3D&reserved=0 >> >> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2Femail-signature%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Dwebmail&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196243177&sdata=LB74A8Wb8LO9fZ3GoQ7fYyCUuiGdZrumcNAxm6jtAws%3D&reserved=0> >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 5:28 AM John Steele <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> Seriously, I hope this is just a bad joke. Students should be learning two >>> things: >>> *To think >>> *Material that will be useful in the profession the course relates to. >>> >>> It is bad enough students need to convert between metric and the Customary >>> units still prevalent in some professions in the US. Teaching (and >>> examining them) on units too obscure to even be defined in Rowlett's Units >>> of Measure, moreless actually used in the US is torture, not teaching. As a >>> potential employer, students who have wasted class time learning nonsense >>> like this would be less useful to me than students who have learned more >>> useful material. >>> >>> I think this needs to be rethought. >>> >>> While being pedantic, I need to point out that the kilogram is a unit of >>> mass, not force (the concept of kilogram-force being entirely deprecated in >>> the SI) so kg/bc² can not be a unit of pressure. You need to multiply by >>> local gravity (as the building likely is designed to stay put) and use >>> N/bc². Also, we use Customary, derived from more obsolete British units, >>> not Imperial. We were independent when Imperial was conceived and adopted >>> none of its changes. Only units which did not change in 1824 are common. >>> >>> I have to ask. In Texas, is a cigarette the length of the tobacco product >>> or the boat? >>> >>> On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 4:46:41 PM EDT, John Nichols <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> It is very easy to demonstrate to a class of Freshman the stupidity of the >>> Imperial System used in the USA. >>> >>> >>> >>> Teach then about a cigarette – a legal length in Texas >>> Tell them about stones once in class and the use it in the exam >>> Use barley corns >>> A llath is a great UK unit – it is legal in the UK so I tell me students it >>> is acceptable here >>> Do all board work in feet and change to inches in the exam -- >>> >>> >>> Then set a math problem – >>> >>> >>> >>> A building weighs 4000000 stone, what is the ground pressure if the >>> building is 2/3 of a cigarette by 200 llaths in kg/ squared bc. >>> >>> >>> >>> Who said you cannot fix stupid. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> John Nichols >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> USMA mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> https://lists.colostate.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usma >>> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.colostate.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fusma&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196253170&sdata=s9K8bQMAr670n2Q%2BUM%2BYPvfRrFOMTZSYocMgWMqZgTo%3D&reserved=0> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> USMA mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> https://lists.colostate.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usma >>> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.colostate.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fusma&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196253170&sdata=s9K8bQMAr670n2Q%2BUM%2BYPvfRrFOMTZSYocMgWMqZgTo%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2Femail-signature%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Dwebmail&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196253170&sdata=E%2BbytY1IGzf6FIlSEyrAWJwSegGIBc2zcfph%2ByfDxIU%3D&reserved=0> >> >> Virus-free. >> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196253170&sdata=lwiO3ZYbT3zXFeaYTSmpEkDD3J8k2SmfZ6%2B5fpxnuqk%3D&reserved=0 >> >> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2Femail-signature%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Dwebmail&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196253170&sdata=E%2BbytY1IGzf6FIlSEyrAWJwSegGIBc2zcfph%2ByfDxIU%3D&reserved=0> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> USMA mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.colostate.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fusma&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196253170&sdata=s9K8bQMAr670n2Q%2BUM%2BYPvfRrFOMTZSYocMgWMqZgTo%3D&reserved=0 >> >> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.colostate.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fusma&data=02%7C01%7Cusma%40lists.colostate.edu%7Cc272629254d14e12482808d7f6007875%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637248354196253170&sdata=s9K8bQMAr670n2Q%2BUM%2BYPvfRrFOMTZSYocMgWMqZgTo%3D&reserved=0>
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