On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 21:40 +0100, Frank Mehnert wrote:
> 
> Well, we are talking about installing packages here.

Yes.

> To install
> VirtualBox one has to be root, to install kvm one has to be root
> as well.

No argument.

> /etc/init.d/kvm is loading the proper kernel modules
> automatically

Right.  With no /etc/default/kvm "on|off" type switch that many packages
employ.

> but it is allowed to modify scripts in /etc/init.d.

What's allowed to modify scripts in /etc/init.d?  If you mean the
installer, yeah, but that doesn't scale.  It adds a new file which has
to be reconciled with a "dpkg-new" version on every upgrade going
forward.  Failure to carry the changes forward on every upgrade and you
wind up with a broken virtualbox again.

> Or he could call /etc/init.d/kvm stop before starting
> a VirtualBox VM.

Iff he was root.  My argument is that I should not need (nor even be
able) to be root to run virtualbox.  Hey, if we were to accept that root
privileges might/should be needed to get virtualbox running (not
installed, running) then things like a working ICMP ping (my
understanding is that virtualbox's lack of root prevents this) would be
possible, yes?

> Of course this is not possible for a non-root user but I don't want
> to prevent users which can get root from having both packages in
> parallel on their system.

But that doesn't address the need for such a user to know that he has to
fiddle with kvm at a command prompt before virtualbox will work.  I go
back to my previously expressed desire for things to "just work" "out of
the box" -- no googling, or mailing list cries for help, etc. needed.

> Actually VMware has the same problem. The kvm package should either
> not load the kernel modules or the kernel modules should not enable
> the root mode by default.

Perhaps.  I'll have to take your word for it as I'm really not
knowledgeable about such things.

> But I understand their point: To enable the
> VT-x / AMD-V root mode, one has to be root. VirtualBox does this
> using its vboxdrv helper module, kvm does this by loading the Linux
> kernel modules at boot time ...

So ultimately, maybe kvm needs to rework how they do that.  But in the
meanwhile, it makes life a bit more difficult for a parallel
installation.

On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 21:47 +0100, Frank Mehnert wrote:
> 
> I'm sure many users don't complain doing
> 
>   # doing VirtualBox stuff
>   sudo /etc/init.d/kvm stop
>   VirtualBox
>   ...
> 
>   # doing KVM stuff
>   sudo /etc/init.d/kvm start

Assuming a) that they have sudo access and b) that they are comfortable
with the command-line (which a goal of a good O/S should be minimizing
more and more).  Many people (like my mom and my wife and my son) just
want to click something on a menu, and I would give none of them root
access as they simply don't know what they are doing at a command prompt
and I don't want to have to fix borked machines.

And sure, now I know that I cannot install kvm and virtualbox.  It would
have just been nice to have avoided the need to figure this out for
myself.  I'm just trying to save the future head-scratchers.

b.

Attachment: signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

_______________________________________________
vbox-users mailing list
[email protected]
http://vbox.innotek.de/mailman/listinfo/vbox-users

Reply via email to