Matthias Schniedermeyer:
Pointing out that the last stable release of VDR having an old
timestamp has nothing to do with people _choosing_ to use the
developer version, which is warned and well-known to possibly contain
changes that will cause problems for those expecting "stable"
behavior. The advice has always been, and will always be, if you
expect stable then use stable.

Gerald Dachs:
I think fnu is wrong in his assumption that "over 95% of VDR users"
use pre-made VDR distributions because I see no evidence of it
anywhere. Not in forums, mailing lists, irc, ... Ultimately nobody
knows the true answer but that doesn't mean you should look at things
with blinders on that only allow you to see what you want to see.

"Nobody really want to use VDR 1.6.0 anymore these days, in Europe we
would not be able to watch HDTV. Facing this fact VDR 1.7.3+ is more
than just a developer playground."

VDR 1.7.3+ _are_ developer versions no matter how many users use it,
or why they do.

"It can't be the right way that there is a VDR developer version,
which is just usable from vanilla source w/o any addon and hardly in any
other environment."

Plugin authors have two choices.. They can 1) follow the VDR developer
versions knowing that there may be many changes and require a lot of
work to make their plugins work with each version, or 2) update their
plugin only at stable version intervals.. Thankfully it seems #1 is
the popular choice because it keeps them active and makes it highly
likely their plugins will work with the next stable release at the
moment it's released. But, again, choosing developer VDR means you may
face the possibility that everything will break with the next version.
History says this rarely happens but it could and whether or not it
does shouldn't be the deciding factor in if VDR adopts a change or
not. Klaus I'm sure has had many VDR growing pains over the years --
it's not exactly unreasonable to say plugin authors might have them as

"Derek tell me, do you compile your Linux also from scratch/source? I
would assume you don't do this and rather using something like Fedora,
RedHat, SuSE, Debian, Gentoo etc. using comfortably the offered
packages ot their repositories, even the ones from unstable sources."

I use Debian testing and compile the following; VDR, VDR plugins I
use, mplayer2, ffmpeg, the kernel, external (media_build) dvb & lirc
drivers. I do not use a desktop and therefore don't waste my time with
anything beyond installing xserver so my VDR boxes have a way to
output video. But compiling an entire distro from scratch? No, I don't
do that. I hope you're not comparing compiling VDR to compiling an
entire distro because that would be dumb.

"VDR is indeed a success and my alltime HTPC favorite, thanks for it
Klaus. But that is not from the users compiling from source. I do not
talk about some dozens of US users compiling VDR themselfs from

You're not only vastly underestimating the size of the NA user base
(not just the US), but you're also ignoring all the european VDR users
who do not user pre-made VDR and the history VDR had before pre-made
was around. Many users install pre-made packages or use something like
yavdr. ....And very obviously many users do not. Pulling magical
numbers out of thin air won't change that fact and neither will
pretending other types of VDR users don't exist.

You think VDR is successful because of pre-made stuff. I think it was
successful before that. Let's just agree to disagree. You can keep
installing yavdr, I will keep compiling VDR myself, and everyone else
will do whatever they do.

"Linux wouldn't have been that succesfull, if Linus Torvalds would not
had an ear to the needs of others, even business needs ..."

I'm not sure why you're mentioning this. Are you implying that
VDR-1.7.34 goes against the _needs_ of plugin authors? Klaus certainly
takes what other people want into consideration and has implemented
things that wouldn't have happened if they were based solely on his
own opinion/preference/needs/wants. Lack of consideration for others
isn't even an issue here so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up.

Sorry for using this reply format but it seemed more appropriate than
posting several replies in a row.

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