On 3/21/06, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks,  Nathan, that's a good way to put it.  All people need to do is set
> a config option to make existing apps work.
>
> The challenge is getting 100% of upgrading users to find this info.  We'd
> need to highlight this in a README, in the docs, and answer tech support
> questions on this.  And there may still users who miss it.  Yes, it might be
> their own fault, but that's still a dent in our rep for those users.

Put the info right into the exception message, as i suggested.  Then
the users who need can't miss it!  Something like the following should
do the trick:

ParseErrorException: Your macro call contained the wrong number of
arguments.  To allow this behavior, set
'velocimacro.break.on.wrong.argument.count = false' in your
velocity.properties.

i can have some sympathy for those who don't read the manual, change
logs, readmes, or release notes.  i have no sympathy for those who
don't read exception messages and then whine about the exception. 
part of that is because i've never heard of such a person. :)

> (we can balance this against tech support for new users who should see macro
> errors but don't.  pretty minimal to date).
>
> For other similar issues (e.g. allowing set's to set null's) we've made the
> config default to old behavior.  Minor though this seems, it's enough of an
> exception I'd like to hear from other committers before giving up our goal
> of 100% "drop-in" replacement.

Just for the record, i have never understood that goal to include
buggy behavior. :)  so i don't think we'd be dropping the goal at all.

> WILL
>
> On 3/21/06, Nathan Bubna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > If i may be forgiven one last push... :)
> >
> > Let's keep the story straight--you wouldn't have to edit the old apps
> > to make them work with 1.5.  You just have to set the config property,
> > not really a great burden.  We could even make the message with the
> > thrown exception point out the new config property, so that those who
> > don't read change logs or release notes will have no problem figuring
> > out what's going on.
> >
> > On 3/21/06, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I feel strongly about this.
> > >
> > > I've personally got hundreds of templates in production and support
> > users
> > > with hundreds more.  Say 5% of those templates have this error.  (It's
> > not
> > > hard to make -- note that the Velocity test suite for Anakia contains
> > this
> > > error).  All of a sudden I have tens of templates, scattered all over
> > the
> > > place that suddenly cause errors.  All of those apps work right now- why
> > do
> > > I want them to fail?  Anything that requires me to edit old apps to make
> > > Velocity 1.5 work is not backwards compatible.  (and will retard
> > adoption of
> > > 1.5).
> > >
> > > It would have been nicer if this had always generated an error.  For new
> > > apps this is better.  But for old apps it is actively harmful to change
> > > this.   So let's make this a config option and turn it on by default for
> > 2.0
> > > .
> > >
> > > WILL
> > >
> > > On 3/21/06, Nathan Bubna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 3/21/06, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > I'm starting to agree with you, Llwellyn.  Though I don't think we
> > > > should
> > > > > change the behavior of the templates for existing users.
> > > >
> > > > even if the behavior is buggy/broken?  it's not like the extra or
> > > > missing arguments were doing anything functionally.  throwing an
> > > > exception, however, will add functionality (as Malcom demonstrated.
> > > > we already warned that their macro call was broken in the logs, i
> > > > think it is fair to escalate that to an exception, especially if we
> > > > provide a config option to log instead of throw an exception.
> > > >
> > > > of course, if you feel strongly about this, i won't -1 a log-only
> > > > default, and i'll let them that do the work implement it the way they
> > > > want :). it's just my opinion; i won't be dogmatic on it. :)
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WILL
> > > > >
> > > > > On 3/21/06, Llewellyn Falco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Personally, i feel that templates whose macro calls don't match
> > up
> > > > to
> > > > > > > the macro definitions are *already* broken.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > this is my general thought on the whole thing too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and as we deal in financial transactions, I take a general view of
> > > > > > it is better not to show something than to show something wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > however, I can understand that in an entertainment situation you
> > might
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > the exact opposite view.
> > > > > > again though, I think this goes back to a 2 modes of running.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > development - always halt on errors - someone's there to fix them.
> > > > > > deployment - do the best you can -  log what goes wrong
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and see a setting much more in this idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > btw: this is also why I always develop with the UberspectTestImpl
> > and
> > > > > > rather
> > > > > > think that it should be default Uberspect, while currently it is
> > only
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > test classes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Llewellyn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Forio Business Simulations
> > > > >
> > > > > Will Glass-Husain
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > www.forio.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Forio Business Simulations
> > >
> > > Will Glass-Husain
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > www.forio.com
> > >
> > >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Forio Business Simulations
>
> Will Glass-Husain
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.forio.com
>
>

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