hmm... if it's in the documentation, log AND exception message, that doesn't
seem so bad...

I'll pause here for a day to see if anyone else wants to defend my side.

WILL



On 3/21/06, Nathan Bubna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 3/21/06, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Thanks,  Nathan, that's a good way to put it.  All people need to do is
> set
> > a config option to make existing apps work.
> >
> > The challenge is getting 100% of upgrading users to find this
> info.  We'd
> > need to highlight this in a README, in the docs, and answer tech support
> > questions on this.  And there may still users who miss it.  Yes, it
> might be
> > their own fault, but that's still a dent in our rep for those users.
>
> Put the info right into the exception message, as i suggested.  Then
> the users who need can't miss it!  Something like the following should
> do the trick:
>
> ParseErrorException: Your macro call contained the wrong number of
> arguments.  To allow this behavior, set
> 'velocimacro.break.on.wrong.argument.count = false' in your
> velocity.properties.
>
> i can have some sympathy for those who don't read the manual, change
> logs, readmes, or release notes.  i have no sympathy for those who
> don't read exception messages and then whine about the exception.
> part of that is because i've never heard of such a person. :)
>
> > (we can balance this against tech support for new users who should see
> macro
> > errors but don't.  pretty minimal to date).
> >
> > For other similar issues (e.g. allowing set's to set null's) we've made
> the
> > config default to old behavior.  Minor though this seems, it's enough of
> an
> > exception I'd like to hear from other committers before giving up our
> goal
> > of 100% "drop-in" replacement.
>
> Just for the record, i have never understood that goal to include
> buggy behavior. :)  so i don't think we'd be dropping the goal at all.
>
> > WILL
> >
> > On 3/21/06, Nathan Bubna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > If i may be forgiven one last push... :)
> > >
> > > Let's keep the story straight--you wouldn't have to edit the old apps
> > > to make them work with 1.5.  You just have to set the config property,
> > > not really a great burden.  We could even make the message with the
> > > thrown exception point out the new config property, so that those who
> > > don't read change logs or release notes will have no problem figuring
> > > out what's going on.
> > >
> > > On 3/21/06, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > I feel strongly about this.
> > > >
> > > > I've personally got hundreds of templates in production and support
> > > users
> > > > with hundreds more.  Say 5% of those templates have this
> error.  (It's
> > > not
> > > > hard to make -- note that the Velocity test suite for Anakia
> contains
> > > this
> > > > error).  All of a sudden I have tens of templates, scattered all
> over
> > > the
> > > > place that suddenly cause errors.  All of those apps work right now-
> why
> > > do
> > > > I want them to fail?  Anything that requires me to edit old apps to
> make
> > > > Velocity 1.5 work is not backwards compatible.  (and will retard
> > > adoption of
> > > > 1.5).
> > > >
> > > > It would have been nicer if this had always generated an error.  For
> new
> > > > apps this is better.  But for old apps it is actively harmful to
> change
> > > > this.   So let's make this a config option and turn it on by default
> for
> > > 2.0
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > WILL
> > > >
> > > > On 3/21/06, Nathan Bubna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On 3/21/06, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > I'm starting to agree with you, Llwellyn.  Though I don't think
> we
> > > > > should
> > > > > > change the behavior of the templates for existing users.
> > > > >
> > > > > even if the behavior is buggy/broken?  it's not like the extra or
> > > > > missing arguments were doing anything functionally.  throwing an
> > > > > exception, however, will add functionality (as Malcom
> demonstrated.
> > > > > we already warned that their macro call was broken in the logs, i
> > > > > think it is fair to escalate that to an exception, especially if
> we
> > > > > provide a config option to log instead of throw an exception.
> > > > >
> > > > > of course, if you feel strongly about this, i won't -1 a log-only
> > > > > default, and i'll let them that do the work implement it the way
> they
> > > > > want :). it's just my opinion; i won't be dogmatic on it. :)
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WILL
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 3/21/06, Llewellyn Falco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Personally, i feel that templates whose macro calls don't
> match
> > > up
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the macro definitions are *already* broken.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > this is my general thought on the whole thing too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > and as we deal in financial transactions, I take a general
> view of
> > > > > > > it is better not to show something than to show something
> wrong.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > however, I can understand that in an entertainment situation
> you
> > > might
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > the exact opposite view.
> > > > > > > again though, I think this goes back to a 2 modes of running.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > development - always halt on errors - someone's there to fix
> them.
> > > > > > > deployment - do the best you can -  log what goes wrong
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > and see a setting much more in this idea.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > btw: this is also why I always develop with the
> UberspectTestImpl
> > > and
> > > > > > > rather
> > > > > > > think that it should be default Uberspect, while currently it
> is
> > > only
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > test classes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Llewellyn.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Forio Business Simulations
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will Glass-Husain
> > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > www.forio.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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--
Forio Business Simulations

Will Glass-Husain
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.forio.com

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