Patrick knows how to "take it like a man" when it comes to tellin' it like it is..........Pete, your a sweet person. i'd have to say "DITTO" on all you say here...........other than i will use the word crappy...............hey, call a spade a spade. Figuretively speaking of course...........
BTW folks..............there are some INCREDABLE buys on ebay right
now.........i just got 5 pairs of perfectly matched PRIMO Satyr Tragopan
feathers for a steal. There's one lot of 500 Peacock sticks goin' for $129.95
as a "Buy It Now." .......another steal. i'd get it, but i got that much
already.........lol...............there's Guinea quills, Turkey quills, MaCaw
tail feathers.....all kinna stuff. GO!
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:16:44 -0400
Subject: [VFB] Re: ok update on the ronn lucas sr lessons
From: pete.gr...@gmail.com
To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
I wouldn't say 'crappy' hooks... well, ok, maybe I would - but I won't... ;)
Just that some hooks are better proportioned than others. Unfortunately,
that's sometimes done because of the hook strength - some types/styles of
hooks, if you have the proportions of the hook perfect, the holding power
stinks and it bends like a Slinky!
I'm thinking I may double your efforts - Patrick, sorry in advance for your
mailbox being stuffed full of "goodies" when I send my swap flies to ya'...
Also, sorry if any of my comments came out like an insult or rude or stuck-up
or holier-than-thou critique... goodness knows I'm not perfect, or even close!
Most important rule and advice I can ever give you:
Like what you tie and tie what you like!
Have fun with it, or else it becomes a chore. Keep those flies coming, I
really do like them!
Tight wraps,
-Pete
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Mark Romero <markflie...@hotmail.com> wrote:
one more thing.........like i said before on the GP crest
thread.............it's all extremely relative........specially in terms of
when your using crap hooks as Patrick is.........he has no choice at the moment
but to tye on whatever he has on hand for hooks. and crappy hooks have crappy
proportions in terms of being adaptable to various styles (in the Salmon fly
world) of tying. so he's behind the 8-ball from the jump. i sent him some
"better" hooks today............he'll be groovin' soon.
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:41:47 -0400
Subject: [VFB] Re: ok update on the ronn lucas sr lessons
From: pete.gr...@gmail.com
To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 5:41 PM, <mystikalra...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>let me know what you all think so say what you would like and be totally
>honest pls
Be totally honest? We're fishermen, come on, that's difficult. But let me tell
you about that hundred-trout day, all caught on a single size 34 hook ...;)
If you are serious and want serious advice, let me start by saying I like the
fly exactly as it is - and for the 'fish- catching' abilities, I'd be surprised
if a fish turned up its nose (do trout have noses?) at this fly! If you're
looking for advice for the 'classic proportions', I'll give that to follow, but
only with the disclaimer that I don't know who came up with these "rules" and
that they take the innovation and, essentially, the fun out of the whole
thing... enough beating round the bush... the body is just the slightest
smidgen of a bit too far rearward. You want the tag to stop above the tip of
the point of the hook of the fly... don't confuse the point with the barb, as I
did for the longest time. The peacock tail is (again, if you're seeking
'classic' convention) to start above the space right prior to the hook point
(where the floss meets up with the tag) and extend a length of 2/3rds the
length of the shank (so two thirds of the distance from where the hook eye
meets the shank to the point above the point) That's if you're tying for
'classic proportions' and not 'hey, it looks nice, and it'll catch fish'. The
floss work is great - spot on! in theory the rib should have 5 turns from tag
to (under the thorax) the wing seating... not sure I buy it, but it is an
arbitrary target that keeps me from over-ribbing when I tie, so I thought I'd
pass that on. Someone once told me at a show that the width (height?) of the
tail should match the hook gap, and that the thorax (the peacock just behind
the wing) should be that thick as well. I'm not sure I buy that whole
statement, or that it is 'classic' proportion, but it really got me tying
fuller thoraxes of good proportions, to shoot for such a thick thorax and fall
short, only to equal the thickness of what I wanted. Sounds silly, but I
seriously took a good half a year of so, when I first started, before realizing
that you can use more than one piece of herl to tie a thorax... I know, not the
brightest bulb in the lighting section... The wing is a little full for MY
tastes, but it is angled at a decent angle... maybe a TAD less incline, but
that's also a personal tastes thing. Yeah, I'll unfortunately agree with Mark,
and again I emphasize that if you are tying for fun or fishing, this is all
hogwash anyhow - but if you want to tie to "classic" proportions, you want to
start the thorax 3 hook-eye-widths (if you look at the hook eye and measure
only the horizontal width - with the eye diagonal like in your photo - and then
copy that 3 times, starting at where the shank meets the eye and moving towards
the tail), that;s where the thorax should start - it feels too soon when tying,
for me it's because I like the look and feel of tying a grandiose body, but
it's just about right. So start the thorax about 3 hook eyes back, wrap two of
those three with thorax, give or take. Mount the wing and hackle, wrap, tie
off, etc, and then finish the head with as few wraps as possible - a trick I
learned is that you use 3 wraps for the wing - that's it - and 2 for the hackle
- that's it. Then when you go to tie the head, you're essentially adding the
wraps that you wanted to add to secure the wing and hackle in the first place.
All of this to say, yeah, the head is kinda crowded. I've said it before - is
it "wrong"? not a chance. But if you are seeking "classic" proportions, yeah,
it is a bit crowded. All in all, a really great tie! Personally, I tie
realistics (some call it "sculpting" and not "tying", so I'll throw that
disclaimer out there), so can be over-the-top when it comes to proportions...
but in the same breath I say that I also tie flies to fish with - for those,
proportions be darned! If it catches fish, who cares? We can all offer tips
and suggestions, but in the end, it is ultimately your opinion of it (or a
fish's, if you choose to wet the fly) that truly matters.
Just my 2 cents worth,
-Pete
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