Ok..i can see where you all would 'cringe' a bit on the cheapo vises.  Personally, the cheapo in the Starter Kit has served me well enough to where i got the gist of tying.  I acquired another vise (brand unknown) that's better than the kit one and that's the one i'm using now.
 
Two schools of thought here...You can buy a really good vise and hope the youngster sticks with this wonderful hobby OR get the good vise and if he/she finds out they don't care to tie, then you have a fairly expensive vise, possibly collecting dust in the far reaches of the tying dungeon.
 
Some day when i grow up, i'll get one of those nice vises that i see talked about in the list but that'll probably when both my babies get out of college (5 years).  As busy as i am now, i'm tying like a part timer and the thing i need to realize is that i need to take my time when tying.
 
On another note, my bride got her first casting lesson last nite and took to it like a fish to water!!!!!  I'm absolutely giddy!!!!!!!!!
 
Tom in VT
 
><))))))*>

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