On 12/6/06, Pete Prodoehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mike Meiser wrote: > > It's funny my gut reaction was that we had an imposter posting under > Mike > > Hudack, I've never known him to be so blunt and harsh. > > > > But then I've got to say, as a non-programmer... drupal, plone and the > whole > > CMS thing... are atrocities that developers foist onto everyday users... > "oh > > but look at how great it is, and what you can do with it!" > > How do they foist them on you? Is someone forcing you to install and use > a CMS? Years ago everyone thought that a CMS was a solution to a > successful and easy to use web site, but it's just a small piece of the > puzzle.
I could go trough dozens of cases, but here's one. I needed a photo gallery... what was recommended was plone. I gave it more than a go... thank god flickr came along. Truth is people (always developers) have recommend it for all sorts of collaborative projects, I'm not going to name those projects of which there have been a half dozen to a dozen over the last couple years because they're mostly still sore points. I look at it this way. I was there and particcipated in the development of MediaRSS... and mediaRSS is GREAT stuff, but we overlooked one thing. MediaRSS didn't empower the average blogger, it empowered the feedburner, blip, and all manner of developers. The problem is most bloggers don't have access to their RSS... they don't know how to code RSS, nor how to dig into the underlying layers of applications like Drupal, Moveable type or wrodpress. You cannot specify MediaRSS IN the blog post. Therefore media RSS does not bring the power all the way to the people. Which is precisely what everyone is talking about right now. We're working on a microstandard for marking up content symantically in blog posts so bloggers can take more control over identifying important elements of a post that can be read and translated directly into a higher level language like MediaRSS. Stuff like specifying alternate video and audio formats... identifying your thumbnails so they can be used in databases... specifying the location a video was shot (a standard for this has already been developed), and specifying a license format on the individual video, which also already exists. This will hopefully be simple enough to empower the average blogger, vlogger, podcaster, phtooblogger to make better use out of their blog just like other standards like RelTag... which allowed them to tag their posts. Also, of great importance, hopefully it will improve the visibility and improve the uptake of these technologies in blogging platforms like Moveable type, blogger, and wordpress. So people don't have to know so much about markup language and what it means to semantically identify the elements of your blog post. So... in summary. Drupal failed to get the power to the people. In stead it got about 90% of the way there and then got really really complex and kludgey. Kludge being a term used by naval people... to describe things that made such a sound when they went over the side and into the drink. That said, failure is important... it teachs great lessons, I know I've learned a lot from drupal, even just from this email. Quite simply put there is no coincidence that a discussion of mediaRSS desended into a discussion of the failure of drupal. In many ways mediaRSS hasn't been as successful as it could be because the media plaforms and blogging platforms have failed to allow people to really get a hold of mediaRSS... of which is most obvious with Drupal, but also Moveabletype, Wordpress and especially blogger. There has been a missing link or a week link in the process of collecting and translating metadata through blogs posts. Hopefully this new media microstandard will change this tremendously. > I cannot TELL you how many times I've had someone foist drupal, plone or > > some other CMS on me when all I needed was a PBwiki or a wordpress > install. > > Some people/organizations need a hell of a lot more than a wiki or > blogging software... I like to keep it real, keep it as close to the table as possible... it is easier to start with a shovel and realize you need a back hoe than to buy a backhoe and realize you only needed a shovel... or to just have the project fail because the 2-3 core people developing the project don't know how to use a backhoe. > 99.99% of people don't want or need a big swiss army knife of a CMS > system. > > They need the single tool they need and that's it. > > I guess I fit into that 0.01%... I meant you no insult. But absolutely, you are a programmer aren't you. :) 99.999% of people are not programmers, don't know how to configure drupal, don't know have the skills necissary. So yes I suspect you are that .01%, and I bear you absolutely no ill will. I just ask you to remember that on projects requiring CMS, that probably the majority of the people will never look under the hood, know how to change the oil, or any of that jaz. Their task is not building and maintaining the system for collaboration. Their object is the collaboration itself. You could no sooner ask them to deal with the eccentricities of something like Drupal then you could ask them to get out of a car and fix a 3 foot pot hole in the road, or put up a stop sign that has fallen over. It's really that backwards for people. I'm a designer... I sit forever somewhere between complete geekdom, and trying to make things as simple and yet as powerful as a hammer for the everyday user. I will openly admit to being on BOTH sides of the line... recommending things that are far too technical for my clients... and been on the recieving end. So... I say everything I'm saying here with tremendous amounts of respect and even love for all those in this space. On the one we've got content people... they're completely obsessed with the meat and content of what they're doing... what happens in the video, communication. And on the other we've got the people who're developing the very systems which make their content fly. It's a beautiful thing. Mutual respect. We need to keep working this space between. That's exactly what this media microstandard conversation is about, and this drupal discussion. We've got to get the power of the tech all the way into the hands of the the person who's speaking on the camera. If that person speaking isn't in power... if they're unable to do what they need to with the tech then it fails not just them but all off us. And that's precisely how this conversation started. Jay basically said this mediaRSS thing looks like a great thing, but how can my guys, the guys making the videos use it. Bottom line... they can't. Not without some big improvements. > It's absolutely nothing persoanl with drupal... I actually want drupal and > > plone and all those other great CMS to succeed... but unless you have a > > developer on call 24x7 drupal is not for the every user. > > And some people do have a developer on-call 24x7... I've worked with a > lot of companies that would have probably been better off hiring someone > to install, customize & support Drupal, but instead either had one guy > build something in-house that did 10% of what Drupal did (and had just > one person knowing the undocumented code) or spent over a million on > some portal solution that everyone constantly complains about. Yeah, some people do have 24x7 developers on staff, but this whole thing right here is extremely grass roots, you won't find to many of those content people who have a developer on call on this group. But yeah, I totally here you. I'm all for open source packages because of their open standards and interoperability, preaching to the choir. The question is purely one of practicality. You can't argue with the practicality of a wordpress blog or a pbwiki. No frills... or few frills simplicity and practicality. Peace Pete, -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog Pete > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
