I do think permanence tempers but does not eliminate poor behavior, and the compartmentalization is key.
I created a place called 'the vent' in k9disc.com where moderators can move 'negative' posts to or where someone can post a blatantly flammable topic. So now I'm never assaulted over my morning coffee with some nasty point of view or some dirty, petty argument. I see it there in the vent, and I can read it if I want to. It's worked really well. Drupal is a nice program, I've administrated it before, but I think that Scoop is far more functional for a vibrant, active community. Scoop isn't just a CMS, it's a great community tool. Lots of stuff happened on DailyKos over the last 3 years, since they installed Scoop. Scoop was the tool used to 'Crash the Gates'. We need a tool like that. That being said, I'm not sure what the administrative workload is. I was unable to install it on my shared servers, so I could not play with it as an admin. But as a user, I have a lot of experience with Scoop, and I must say that it just totally kicks ass. I also agree that there has to be some kind of critical mass and that some of us in a 'leadership' position here have to lead us off this list. If there I'm not sure about the 2 attempted moves of the list, but I do recall one, and if I remember correctly, the site was not bad. It wasn't scoop though. Sign up at boomantribune.com and watch the site for a few days. Watch how dailyKos operates for a few days. (although it has some serious fancy bells a whistles that are not readily available on scoop) Ron Watson On the Web: http://pawsitivevybe.com http://k9disc.com http://k9disc.blip.tv On Feb 26, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Steve Watkins wrote: > Interesting stuff. > > The lists are meant to be communities, but they are certainly lacking > various features. The web interface for yahoo has gotten a bit more > forum-like over time, in that you can see topics b thread now, but > yeah its hardly a totally emersive group experience and obviously > lacks multimedia joys. > > I dont think forums or similar, with more obvious permanence, > eliminate human friction more than mailing lists. They dont remove any > of the causes of arguments, but they do at least keep things more > compartmentalized, its easier for people to avoid threads that have > been derailed, and a more sophisticated array of moderation options > are available to deal with offenders. > > If anything,t he effect of permanence is that when someone whose been > ranting and disruptive on a forum finally calms down, possibly months > later, they look back and think the site makes them look like an ass > and sometimes they demand that all their posts be removed (Ive had to > deal with this once or twice on a forum). This causes problems if they > posted valuable stuff to the community before being inflicted with > trollitis. > > Anyway Ive often longed for a more versatile and multimedia place for > this community to hangout and do its communication. The barrier isnt > technology, I havent checked out Scoop yet but Drupal with Organic > Groups could be made to serve the needs expressed, in somewhere > between 1 day and 1 month, depending on exact features and how much > excellence and free time the volunteer developer & server master had > available to the cause. > > No, I think the barrier is getting everyone to shift. Its been tried > once of twice but getting a mass of people to post somewhere new seems > to be a challenge. Forks on more sepcific topics have not gone > anywhere, forums have remained relatively barren. Indeed although I > havent researched it properly recently, plenty of the video > hosting/community sites have struggled somewhat to actually foster a > vocal active mass of people that resembles a community, even when they > have some better tech on their sites to serve this cause. > > In order to have another attempt to 'move' tat stands more chance of > sucess than in the past, I believe some of the following would help: > > You need more people to actually express an eager desire for this > stuff to happen > > Any compelling reasons why people prefer yahoo (eg prefer email to web > for keeping up) must be addressed by the new service > > Many people must make a co-ordinated effort to have imput on the > design & functionality of the new site, take ownership of it, and most > importantly use it instead of posting here > > Whilst there is no designated 'dear leader' for this community, key > people who have been passionate and active with the online and offline > history of this community, need to speak up in favour of a migration, > progress, and be active in promoting the new destination, and even > putting peple off using the old one. > > Id love to be involved with the technical aspect of such things, but I > sincerely believe that most of the above would be needed before > working out how to implement and move ahead. Ive installed drupal lots > of times as a test, and some of those times I simulated making a > community that would serve this agenda, but content is king and the > mockup is impossible to evaluate without the community - argh which > came first, the chicken or the egg? > > Cheers > > Steve Elbows > > --- In [email protected], Ron Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > What are the Yahoo groups core values and how do we transmit > them to > > > > the newbies and other folks stepping up to the camcorder? > > > > While I love this group and find the information to be totally > > priceless, I find this juxtaposition that Steve puts up here to be > > quite interesting. > > > > We're doing all of our serious business at the Wal-Mart of the > net, a > > Yahoo Group. > > > > It's pretty ironic, really. > > > > All the reliance that we have on the Open Source Community, all the > > talk of grassroots and content creator control, and here we are > > spending hours and hours on a Yahoo List. > > > > Talk about flushing stuff down the memory hole. > > > > These lists were not meant to be communities. > > > > They are dysfunctional on their face, and are really only suitable > > for announcements and such. > > > > What this Yahoo Group needs is a Scoop site. > > > > This Yahoo group should build the dailyKos of Videoblogging. > > > > That's what we need to do, and that's how we're going to be able to > > compete with all of the MyHeavy's that are going to be coming at us. > > > > We need a megaphone, and all we got here is a mailing list; we can't > > even embed images! > > > > Anyway, I'd be happy to pitch in wholeheartedly, although I don't > > have the DB/MYSQL knowledge to get Scoop configured, I'm sure I > could > > help dial her in. > > > > I don't think any of the other CMS setups are as community organized > > as scoop, and don't think they would be as effective as scoop for a > > couple thousand users. > > > > Check out: > > http://boomantribune.com > > http://dailykos.com > > > > If you haven't seen a scoop site. > > > > Anyway, just shooting my mouth off again, but I think the disconnect > > I felt at Steve's quoted comment is something that we must deal with > > if we are to mold any sort of values for newbies and the public in > > general. > > > > I think the way to do that is to get our attention off this list and > > on building something. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Ron Watson > > > > On the Web: > > http://pawsitivevybe.com > > http://k9disc.com > > http://k9disc.blip.tv > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2007, at 2:48 PM, Steve Garfield wrote: > > > > > At the public access station where I taught video blogging for a > > > number of sessions, they've done away with the stand alone video > > > blogging class and now have an 'Adding Multimedia to Your Web > Page' > > > class because people want to know how to put pictures, audio and > > > video on the web to share... > > > > > > http://www.cctvcambridge.org/?q=node/94#html > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2007, at 2:08 PM, Gena wrote: > > > > > > > There are other folks "teaching" vlogging such as Videomaker > > > magazine > > > > who calls it "Vodcasting" They started a series of articles, > have > > > some > > > > training videos and they are putting they thoughts and > > > interpretations > > > > on how to do it for their readers. Different views, different > > > agendas. > > > > > > > > What are the Yahoo groups core values and how do we transmit > them to > > > > the newbies and other folks stepping up to the camcorder? > > > > > > -- > > > Steve Garfield > > > http://SteveGarfield.com > > > > > > > > > __._,_._ > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
