No original research? Why not?
Why use "new media" to define "new media" with a requirement that the validation come from "old media". That's just plain asinine. David http://www.davidhowellstudios.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Watkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ive read it till Im blue in the face. Its clear Pat has made a lot of > edits, but Im still waiting for someone to post a specific example of > his behaviour at its worst. > > Lets stop being vague, show me some specific info that he deleted, > that he wasnt right to do so. > > Because when I try to spend hours reading this stuff, I see loads of > edit info stating why things were deleted, and I keep agreeing with > the decision. So maybe Im being unlucky and picking poor examples, so > show me some good ones. > > Plase no examples that boil down to stuff about whether blogs are > reliable sources, then sorry, Im not going to side with people here on > that one, its an encyclopedia and I respect their sourcing rules. No > original research! > > Cheers > > Steve Elbows > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Verdi" <michael@> wrote: > > > > Steve Watkins - go read the history on the videoblogging article. > > > > On 5/3/07, Steve Watkins <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Oh come off it! As far as Im concerned you've dug your own hole > by not > > > making your case properly. Why havent you provided the info the > > > wikipedia admins asked for? Im glad that attempts to harness the mob > > > without careful consideration and better, less emotional, stating of > > > your case, have failed. > > > > > > The more this ranting continues, the less convinced I am that Pat was > > > in the wrong on this. > > > > > > Some of the discussions on the wikipedia page about Pat being banned > > > made me ashamed. Claims that hundreds of people here are up in arms > > > over the thing, its just not true. Sure there have been lots of emails > > > in the group about this, but a lot of them are insult-based and from > > > the same core of people. > > > > > > Three cheers for due process and down with the rule of the mob. > > > > > > Steve Elbows > > > > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com > <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Mike Meiser" > > > > > > <groups-yahoo-com@> wrote: > > > > > > > > PEOPLE! > > > > > > > > I'm sort of furious. I cannot hide it. Only ONE person... Michael > > > Verdi has > > > > responded,, voted, cited any reason for patrik needing to be > banned or > > > > otherwise rebuked for his abuse of the delete button on the > wikipedia > > > > vlogging article. > > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/2le5bn > > > > > > > > This is just typical B.S. and I cannot hide my frustration any > longer. > > > > > > > > I mine as well have not even bothered to waste my time posting this > > > vote. > > > > > > > > It will be OVER in less than 24 hours... not because there's some > > > deadline > > > > but because only one of you has bothered to respond. > > > > > > > > What's more you're GIVING PAT AMMO! AND giving him a history to > > > which he can > > > > refer when he continues to delete all your future contributions!! > > > > > > > > "it's OK... see because the admins said soo!" > > > > > > > > That's is to paraphrase exactly what he's said in this email! > > > > > > > > 1) Patrick has painted this as a personal dispute between he and > I. He's > > > > cited some edits from way back when by me that probably weren't > > > worthy of > > > > the article to the ignorance of ALL ELSE THAT HAS COME BEFORE > AND SINCE! > > > > > > > > This isn't about the worthiness of my edits I'm sticking up for > > > everyone's > > > > edits! > > > > > > > > The issue is he deleted EVERYONE's contributions automatically with > > > little > > > > regard, and has continued to do so over the last two years. > > > > > > > > 2) As soon as there's any attention to the article or Patrick's poor > > > conduct > > > > and abuse of the delete button he pretends to be all nice again, > > > and makes > > > > a few contributions to pretend like he's not just deleting... then > > > he goes > > > > right back to his same old pattern of automatically deleting all > > > > contributions. > > > > > > > > 3) That he's recieving these votes from admins is because they can't > > > see his > > > > long history and NOONE save Michael Verdi is fucking standing up. > > > Now I've > > > > made the pledge to go back in and total up all the empiracal > > > evidence on the > > > > number of times he's revereted and deleted contributions vs. the > > > number of > > > > contributions. > > > > > > > > But you need to get the fuck in there like Michael verdi did, vote > > > one way > > > > or the other, and start citing some good damn references on things > > > that were > > > > deleted and how quickly they were deleted by Pat. > > > > > > > > There were over 100 emails bitching and moaning about this issue in > > > the last > > > > 24 - 48 hours... and I worked my ass off to give you a forum on > > > wikipedia to > > > > express your thoughts and opinions to the admin and only ONE of you > > > > bothered. > > > > > > > > I've put my ass on the line and it's hanging in the wind... so yes > > > I'm going > > > > to speak up. > > > > > > > > I don't care how you vote, yah, nay, indifferent, cite a > > > reference... ask if > > > > there's some alternative... but to NOT EVEN BOTHER... that's > > > unconscionable. > > > > > > > > If this is a reflection of the level of interest in the > videoblogging > > > > article then fuck it... let pat continue to go around thinking > he's the > > > > gatekeeper of the damn article and all edits need his approval. > > > > > > > > Sorry, I am going to use fuck alot... because this is quite nearly > > > it for > > > > me on this issue and I think you all need a good kick in the > pants to > > > > actually take an action. > > > > > > > > The amount of bitching is amazing, and the complete lack of > action is > > > > absolutely baffling. > > > > > > > > We haven't had this much chatter since Cindy Shehan or MyHeavy > > > started using > > > > all your content to raise funding... or 49 bloggers guy told Chuck > > > Olsen > > > > and his Blogumentary to fuck off. > > > > > > > > I keep wracking my brain... why? Is it because the process of voting > > > is to > > > > complex? Is it because I'm to wordy of a mofo and have failed to > > > make the > > > > issue clear... is it because people are burnt out on the moral > > > outrage... > > > > Why? > > > > > > > > Wikipedia is NOT that hard to edit... it takes about 5 minutes to go > > > post > > > > yay or nay and why! > > > > > > > > If this ends up being a case that is a landslide victory for > > > pdelongchamp > > > > because none of you cared then I will be FINISHED with this > > > article... and > > > > severly disselusioned with this community. > > > > > > > > I know have more respect then ever for Richard BF, Michael Verdi and > > > others > > > > who've gone through this all before. > > > > > > > > I can't believe noone will raise a finger. > > > > > > > > Go there... http://tinyurl.com/2le5bn > > > > > > > > Scroll down to the section on Pdelongchamp... click edit and > leave your > > > > opinion... ANY opinion... if you think I'm wrong leave an opinion. > > > > > > > > VOTE dammit! > > > > > > > > And I'm sorry... I have to say this... I've spoken to four people > > > directly > > > > on the issue... I've spoken to Andreas, Jan, Michael Verdi and > > > Jay... All > > > > these people have spend significant time discussing this issue. That > > > only > > > > one of them, Michael Verdi, took spent a tiny fraction of the > time they > > > > spent talking about this issue here... to go and illustrate their > > > point for > > > > the wikipedia admins is baffling to me. > > > > > > > > Andreas flat out said he wouldn't vote... that he's "staying out of > > > it".... > > > > I love andreas... but I think it's B.S. Andreas... I don't care if > > > you hate > > > > wikipedia and everything it stands for... I understand it... but > > > you're in > > > > it up to your eyeballs. How many comments and blog posts have you > > > made over > > > > this issue over the years... you condemn wikipedia as the > problem of not > > > > protecting against trolls, but you have failed to ever step up to > > > the plate > > > > and defend wikipedia from trolls... this is your chance... to not do > > > so now > > > > is a simple balk. > > > > > > > > Jan said she needed time to sift through the evidence... fine... > Jan I > > > > respect you tremendously... but the reality is if you take another > > > 24 - 48 > > > > hours... then it will be over and pat will be emboldened in his > > > deletes and > > > > you'll never be rid of him. Jan also said this was a case between > > > two people > > > > she cared about and didn't want to take sides... again jan, it's not > > > about > > > > sides... you don't have to vote yeah or nay... vote on the > evidence... > > > > present your own evidence from the previous contributions... I > > > cannot give > > > > you all the evidence you need... and I shouldn't have to. > > > > > > > > Jay... I know you want to be the piece keeper... and that you don't > > > think > > > > pat's a bad guy, but you also know that no matter what pat's > > > intentions he's > > > > doing tremendous damage to the community by being a self appointed > > > > gatekeeper of the community. He's not only alienated the entire > > > community > > > > from wikipedia... but the videoblogging article is our chance to > > > present a > > > > case of what videoblogging is to the world... and for much of the > > > past year > > > > that has consisted of less than 500 words because noone else has > been > > > > willing or able to stand up to pdelongchamp and his abuse of the > delete > > > > button. > > > > > > > > You don't HAVE to vote YAY or NAY people... you can vote... "NEEDS > > > MORE TIME > > > > FOR RESEARCH" (Jan. please at least say this much).... or "IS > THEIR SOME > > > > ALTERNATIVE TO A BAN" .... or present evidence from the > contributions > > > > history... or say "BAN, recommend 1 month" or two weeks... or even > > > 1 day... > > > > 1 day would be a largely symbolic move... but even this would be > a HUGE > > > > victory... it would simply say to pat... we like you... when you're > > > > contributing but don't use the delete so much. > > > > > > > > Or how about "IS THERE ANYWAY TO BAN A USER FROM USING THE > > > REVERSION/DELETE > > > > FEATURE"? > > > > > > > > This is just an initial rebuke, people... this isn't "IT" it's you > > > deciding > > > > wether you're actually going to stand up for yourselves or > simply not. > > > > > > > > Anyway, > > > > > > > > Other than compiling empiraical data on the number of edits and > > > deletes by > > > > Pat, which I could use some help on from some, I'm pretty much done. > > > > > > > > I wanted to give you all the space to react and make you're opinions > > > known > > > > on wikipedia, but by the time you're done... you will have given > exactly > > > > this (the email that started this thread) sort of AMMO to Pat... he > > > thinks > > > > his actions are not only condone-able but good... so good that he > > > sends out > > > > these sort of emails saying "see I told you so". > > > > > > > > The only thing this shows is an unwilliness for this community to > > > stand up > > > > for itself on wikipedia. I have no idea why... perhaps wikipedia > is to > > > > beuracratic or technical... I just don't get it. > > > > > > > > Just don't be fooled that this large moral outrage will change > > > anything in > > > > three months from now when the wikipedia article is again a stub and > > > noone > > > > is contributing because Pat auto-deletes their posts. > > > > > > > > GO VOTE! -- http://tinyurl.com/2le5bn > > > > > > > > Or so help me god I will go away and never come back. :) > > > > > > > > Hrmmpf. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > mmeiser.com/blog > > > > > > > > On 5/3/07, David Howell <taoofdavid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I apologize for the formatting. > > > > > > > > > > Allow me to post this here as well rather than just in an email to > > > > > Patrick Delongchamp. > > > > > > > > > > Patrick. Quit fucking emailing me you nutjob. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Howell > > > > > to Patrick > > > > > > > > > > show details > > > > > 12:36 pm (3 minutes ago) > > > > > You fucking nutcase. I did not try to vote on whatever CN page > you are > > > > > talking about. > > > > > > > > > > Quit emailing me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/3/07, Patrick Delongchamp < pdelongchamp@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I noticed you tried to vote on the CN page. > > > > > > > > > > a) the discussion is closed > > > > > b) you didn't show in any way that MichaelVerdi isn't a meatpuppet > > > > > which he clearly is. Read the policy she was quoting. > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:MEAT#Meatpuppets > > > > > c) It's also clear that Mmeiser was violating the policy as > > > well by > > > > > advertising and soliciting meatpuppets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:MEAT#Advertising_and_soliciting_meatpuppets > > > > > > > > > > Calilil was trying to be considerate and you pretty much yelled at > > > > > him. (CAPS = SHOUTING) Wikipedia isn't a game. I don't come > > > to your > > > > > house and smash your camera for no reason so don't try to come to > > > > > Wikipedia and ban me for no reason. > > > > > > > > > > I tried to be friendly but you clearly enjoy getting a rise out of > > > > > people. For example, your only comment to the Ban Request > > > results was > > > > > to accuse me of spamming. That's a pretty sad rebuttle. You > > > might as > > > > > well have just said "You forgot Poland." > > > > > > > > > > pd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/3/07, Patrick Delongchamp < pdelongchamp@> wrote: > > > > > > Hey Dave, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry about that. I didn't realize it would affect much to > > > > > change the > > > > > > subject of the message. I'll keep it in mind next time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would encourage you to visit the Video blog article though and > > > > > read > > > > > > some of the history and discussions going on. It's interesting > > > > > to see > > > > > > the article finally begin to grow. You'll get a better idea > > > of the > > > > > > difference between editors like Bullemhead and Ruperthowe > > > and myself > > > > > > compared to editors like Mmeiser. It's a collaborative > > > atmosphere > > > > > > when people don't resort to personal attacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > pd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > David Howell > > > > > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com > <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Patrick Delongchamp" > > > > > <pdelongchamp@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Mike, > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't mean for it to seam like you were threatening me. > Sorry. > > > > > > > > > > > > It was just meant as a lighthearted reflection of the topics > > > > > currently being > > > > > > discussed in the group. > > > > > > > > > > > > pd > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/3/07, Michael Verdi <michael@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/3/07, pdelongchamp > > > <pdelongchamp@<pdelongchamp%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and now ladies and gentlemen, ...your moment of zen. (please > > > > > accept this > > > > > > > > as humour with only a tinge of bitterness) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "This user - Pdelongchamp - constantly fucks with the entry. > > > > > [...] It's > > > > > > > > pathetic. I can't believe Meiser still has the patience > to try > > > > > work on > > > > > > > > the article as his changes usually get deleted within > hours." > > > > > > > > -Michael Verdi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well Patrick, > > > > > > > I don't understand your subject line. > > > > > > > What you've quoted there is obviously not a threat. It's > just my > > > > > > > observation of your assholeness which I stand by 100% whether > > > there > > > > > > > are wikipedia editors that agree with you or not. > > > > > > > Please fuck off, > > > > > > > Verdi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > http://michaelverdi.com > > > > > > > http://spinxpress.com > > > > > > > http://freevlog.org > > > > > > > Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://michaelverdi.com > > http://spinxpress.com > > http://freevlog.org > > Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >
