First off, it's a false binary to say "psychiatrists become the good guys" by anything I say. This is, in fact, buying Scientology's argument. They offer "true mental health" and oppose psychiatry; I oppose them, therefore I am pro-psychiatry. It doesn't follow. I could easily protest both sides for the faults they offer. I'd also say that, if you're looking purely for a body count, psychiatry is way behind compared to a number of religions, even after you axe out two pieces of low hanging fruit. That's historical ignorance, however, and it's irrelevant here, because as I've already mentioned, I am not pro-psychiatry.
I'd also say that this isn't about promoting some form of spiritual truth over another. This is about an organization that trains its members in fraud and tactics designed to obstruct justice. This is about things like Operation Snow White, which was a targeted, wide-scale attempt (with some success) at the infiltration of our government, for which Mary Sue Hubbard was convicted of a felony. This is about attempting to frame the mayor of Clearwater for hit-and-run charges because he opposed the Church of Scientology. This is about dead agenting and Avagrams. Look...if people want to believe they're several trillion years old and that Jesus Christ is a reincarnation of Xenu, that's their call to make. I'm hep with that. I have been known to worship a mysterious clip art of a man smoking a pipe. That's fine. I can even marginally tolerate their pricing structure, although I have no love for TM, Kabbalah Center, Est, or any other pay-to-be-better structure. Scientology has, and continues, to go too far, however. It does not play well with others, something that virtually every other religious organization in America has figured out how to do. -- Rhett. Richard H. Hall wrote: > Steve and Rhett, > > First of all, when Psychiatrists become the good guys in any argument, I > find myself tending to be on the other side. In fact, in my opinion, now > that I think about it, the Psychiatric model of mental health, > pharmaceuticals, and commerce has done a lot more damage in the world than > Scientology, or any religion (besides maybe Christianity and Islam). > > Second, I'm 50 years old, and I've spent way too much time in my life trying > to "find the truth", and, let me tell you, there are more versions of what > you describe of the scientologists within the christian/other > religion/spiritual/new age/whatever world that you can shake a stick at. > > Many people want to know the truth, and they prefer to find someone/thing > that will tell them what it is so they don't have to think about it, and > they will give anything to anyone to find "peace" in that way. Sounds fucked > up, but I'm not sure if I begrudge them. > > I'm not saying what the Scientologists do is good, I'm just saying, that, > it's not unusual, nor unusually evil, in this complex, really bad, really > cool, and perfect world. > > ... Richard > > On Feb 8, 2008 4:38 PM, Steve Watkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> I reckon its because: >> >> Unlike other religions it has a more blatant business model involving >> charging for access >> to their version of the holy scriptures. >> >> It doesnt have the benefit of hundreds or thousands of years to obscure >> the origins of the >> texts. Having been a science fiction author does not help L Ron Hubbards >> score on the >> prophet credibility benchmark ;) >> >> They have a very aggressive policy towards those that are against their >> faith, L Rons >> paranoia influenced his creation rather a lot it seems. Still they are >> more likely to send you >> a threatening legal letter than tie you to a chair ;) >> >> They attack psychiatry in a very direct manner, and psychiatry is, along >> with the >> associated drugs, a large and protected industry in the US of A. If the >> things about >> Hubbard Ive read are even half true, it doesnt take long to see why he had >> it in for >> psychiatry, his personality reads like a long list of symptoms of mind >> illness. >> >> There are not so many scientologists, or nations wedded to scientology, to >> give them the >> power that quite a few religions enjoy. If a presidential candidate >> attacked them, he would >> not lose his base. Kids arent indoctrinated about them in schools, arent >> taught to tollerate >> them, or to see their beliefs as less crazy and creepy, or more 'genuinely >> spiritual', >> whatever that means. >> >> They havent got the 'one god' thing going for them. I know sci-fi has gone >> down well in >> recent decades, boy how I dont miss the 90's alien conspiracy obsessions >> for example, but >> its not yet proven to be a sound foundation for a credible modern >> religion. >> >> I dont know of any other religions that have questionnaires that ask >> whether you speak >> slowly. >> >> One thing they do have in common with other religions is being involved in >> the drug rehab >> business. I dont know much about their program, the wikipedia entry makes >> interesting >> reading. My favorite religious drug rehab story was about some other, more >> established >> church that benefitted from Bush's Faith Based initiatives thing. They >> were supposed to >> be treating some people, and got busted because they were actually making >> them work as >> telesales callers promoting the faith. >> >> I got myself a satellite dish so I could look at all the religious >> channels that have emerged >> in recent years in the UK. Well, scientology aint the only religious >> business thats for sure. >> Mmm there are some good Frank Zappa songs about this sort of thing, Im off >> to listen to >> some. >> >> Just remember, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster will set you >> free. >> Pastafarianism, hehe. >> >> Cheers >> >> Steve Elbows >> >> --- In [email protected] <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>, >> "Adam Quirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> I think it's weird that so many people are up in arms over Scientology, >>> >> when >> >>> other religions have been practicing equally cult-like behavior for >>> centuries. And the fact that this 'anonymous' group is most concerned >>> >> over >> >>> their tax-free status is hilarious. Look how much money the Catholic >>> >> church >> >>> pulls in every year, tax-free. I'm not making a judgement call, just >>> stating the obvious here. >>> >>> Scientology is like any other successful business/religion. They found >>> >> their >> >>> target audience, aggressively marketed to them, and are reaping the >>> benefits. Celebrities are already so full of themselves, how could a >>> religion that proclaims them to be God possibly fail to get their >>> >> attention? >> >>> -- >>> >>> *Adam Quirk* / Producer, Wreck & Salvage LLC / [EMAIL PROTECTED] /+1 >>> 551.208.4644 (m) / imbullemhead (aim) >>> >>> >>> On Feb 8, 2008 3:47 PM, David Meade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> There's some here in Indy ... but I dunno if I want the scary >>>> Scientology people to be able to film me filming them filming the >>>> protest ... somehow I'm pretty sure that ends with me being tied to a >>>> chair in over lit basement room being forced to confess my deepest >>>> fears and flaws to an ash tray. >>>> >>>> - Dave >>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://www.DavidMeade.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 8, 2008 2:03 PM, David Howell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Oops. Nevermind. Just noticed that there arent Churches here. The >>>>> >> red >> >>>> markers on that >>>> >>>>> COS map are Anonymous members. *duh* >>>>> >>>>> My bad. >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> http://www.davidhowellstudios.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- In [email protected]<videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>, >>>>> >> "David Howell" <taoofdavid@> >> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Whoa...there's going to be 2 protests here in Cedar Rapids!? I >>>>>> >> didnt >> >>>> even know there was >>>> >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>>> Scientology "Church" here. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll be venturing out there Sunday to get this on video! >>>>>> >>>>>> David >>>>>> http://www.davidhowellstudios.com >>>>>> >>>>>> --- In [email protected]<videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>, >>>>>> >> "Jay dedman" <jay.dedman@> >> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> wow. we'll be in LA sunday. >>>>>>> id love to see what they pull off. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jay >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2008 7:42 PM, Andrew Baron <andrew@> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This Sunday there will be an amazing protest of Scientology by >>>>>>>> >> the >> >>>>>>>> Anonymous group. If anyone in the US can make it out to >>>>>>>> >> capture >> >>>> some >>>> >>>>>>>> footage in your own locale and would be willing to sync up, >>>>>>>> >>>> please >>>> >>>>>>>> email me off-list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Map of Protests around the country >>>>>>>> http://harbl.wetfish.net/cosplay/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anonymous makes it on to NPR: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18764756 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The anti-Scientology group "Anonymous" told NBC11 Monday it >>>>>>>> >>>> expected >>>> >>>>>>>> more than 300,000 people to join protests worldwide on Feb. >>>>>>>> >> 10th >> >>>> at >>>> >>>>>>>> 11am. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "The campaign is going amazingly -- swimmingly at the moment. >>>>>>>> >> We >> >>>> are >>>> >>>>>>>> in the organizational stages," a woman who would not give her >>>>>>>> >>>> name >>>> >>>>>>>> told NBC11. "We are having members of Anonymous from all over >>>>>>>> >> the >> >>>>>>>> world join the protest at their local church of Scientology at >>>>>>>> >> 11 >> >>>>>>>> a.m. local time." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Other people claiming to be members of Anonymous told NBC11 >>>>>>>> >> that >> >>>> the >>>> >>>>>>>> actual number of Scientology protesters worldwide will not >>>>>>>> >> reach >> >>>>>>>> 300,000. The actual number of people who show up for the >>>>>>>> >> rallies >> >>>>>>>> could be much less, they said. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The group members said out of the 24 time zones, there are 17 >>>>>>>> >>>> that >>>> >>>>>>>> have Churches of Scientology. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Of the 24 time zones there are 17 that have a church located >>>>>>>> >> in >> >>>> them >>>> >>>>>>>> and we believe our protesting is happening in 15 of those 17," >>>>>>>> >>>> said >>>> >>>>>>>> the group member. "We have a map that people can log in to and >>>>>>>> >>>> say >>>> >>>>>>>> what protest they're going to at the current moment. At last >>>>>>>> >>>> count we >>>> >>>>>>>> expect 300,000 at all the protests. Everyone in the world is >>>>>>>> >>>> invited. >>>> >>>>>>>> We're trying to get support from local organizations." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anonymous claims the Church of Scientology forces members to >>>>>>>> >> have >> >>>>>>>> abortions as well as sign over their bank accounts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "We think it's wrong that they have tax exempt status," the >>>>>>>> >>>> member >>>> >>>>>>>> told NBC11. "We want to to see if we can get that looked into >>>>>>>> >> by >> >>>> the >>>> >>>>>>>> IRS -- who ever we can gain the ear of. Are they really a >>>>>>>> >>>> religious >>>> >>>>>>>> organization or a business?" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The member of Anonymous said her organization is attempting to >>>>>>>> >>>> change >>>> >>>>>>>> its approach because it first gained attention as a group of >>>>>>>> "hackers" and "pranksters." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The group said it now plans to engage in activities that fight >>>>>>>> against Scientology, but are not considered illegal by the U.S >>>>>>>> >> . >> >>>>>>>> government. The member told NBC11 that she is not an actual >>>>>>>> >>>> hacker >>>> >>>>>>>> herself, but rather someone providing other means of support >>>>>>>> >> to >> >>>>>>>> Anonymous. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The member said Anonymous is planning to hold large monthly >>>>>>>> >>>> protests >>>> >>>>>>>> against Scientology at its churches each month until May. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> She said the group is drawing up plans for more protests after >>>>>>>> >>>> that. >>>> >>>>>>>> The group member said Anonymous would hold another large >>>>>>>> >> protest >> >>>> two >>>> >>>>>>>> days after church founder L. Ron Hubbard's birthday on March >>>>>>>> >> 15. >> >>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> http://jaydedman.com >>>>>>> 917 371 6790 >>>>>>> Professional: http://ryanishungry.com >>>>>>> Personal: http://momentshowing.net >>>>>>> Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ >>>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman >>>>>>> RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >
