Excellent points, Jeffrey. Agreed, across the board. Additionally, I've been saying for well over a year now that even IF the creation of online video becomes monetized, it's not going to be to the proper degree, because there is *NO*WAY* to prove demographics. If you can't prove demos, you can't tell an advertiser you're going to hit their target market to any degree where they should give you a lot of money for it.
Without the money, you can't pay professionals or at least people who are GOOD at what they do to work on your project for the amount of time that it takes to make it good. People cut corners to make budgets (if there's a budget at all) and end up outputting slipshod work that doesn't inspire anyone with funding who technically understands what they're looking at to hire that person or group to represent THEIR interests on the internet. So it's a spiral, where the lack of "production value" makes companies NOT put money into online video, and because the money isn't here, there's no production value, because that requires the TIME of someone who knows what they're doing to concentrate on the work, which isn't affordable. Meanwhile, exactly what you've mentioned is what's been happening. Production teams are popping up "out of nowhere" with the exact same content that's been here in this group for ages, such as <http://somethingtobedesired.com> and <http://galacticast.com> and <http://chasingmills.com>, etc... except with the funding allocated to creating said content with production budgets AND advertising budgets. There's nothing wrong with that, but we need to realize that the landscape's drastically different now. Even if you look at YouTube, "all of a sudden" there are videos with little red flags in the corner, indicating some sort of advanced affiliation with YouTube. There's ALSO a check-box that allows you to filter YouTube results for ONLY THE VIDEOS with the little red flag in the corner. So, yes, everything's changing, and rapidly. The question has to be "why are you posting videos online?". You might be posting for yourself or your friends or "the audience of ten" or to become popular or to advertise your business or to make money through revenue sharing or to become sponsored or bought out or hired to be "the face of a show" or to be the producer or editor on a show... Whatever it is, NOW is the time to figure out what your goals are and figure out how you're going to attempt to achieve that and how long you're willing to apply yourself to making that happen. Bill Cammack http://billcammack.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well. > > First and foremost, Steve W. has it right � the key here is to be tolerant > of each others' expression, which also includes people's beliefs when it > comes to making money. As John's video clearly indicates, the world is tough > enough to navigate without a nasty polemic that shuts down communication and > has people leave the space. And for those who have been around long enough, > we all know there have been many that sadly have left this space. > > What I don't see is this community pointing fingers at ourselves first when > it comes to making our new media space a reality. People like myself have > been saying over and over that time is of the essence. Two years ago, I said > the marketers were discovering this space and were planning to commodify the > living shit out of it in ways we can't imagine once the budgets are > approved. That is exactly what has happened. In general, the marketers heard > about it in '06 and the exploitation of the medium came into its own in '07, > once the ledger-line planning that marketers had done the year before had > been released. We had a limited time to come together and create a set of > values before greater forces took over. In some ways we have succeeded (e.g. > CC licenses, full disclosure) because there was agreement, and others we > have failed because of varying opinions and degrees of conviction on certain > issues. We need to own that as a group of individuals. The result is the > result, and many ships have sailed. Regarding many issues, the complaints > are useless now as the time of value and context creation on a greater scale > has passed. Exposing crap such that people are looking at new ways of doing > things is great, but complaining about crap through personal attacks does > nothing but satisfy individuals. > > John's video, while technically brilliant, seems to barely even gloss over > the fact that he made his own decisions here. We have all known from that > the downside of YouTube's vast audience potential is scant revenue-sharing > and horrific comments. We have known what models � no matter how dreadful > and degrading to our dreams of a new media landscape � are doing well and > how unfair and rather disgusting they are to some, if not most, people. I > think it is rather unfair to hold others accountable for one's personal > decisions or one's lack of viable options to showcase work. > > A sad mistake of this community as it developed is that we did not invite > the established artistic community in as effectively as we invited the > commercial interests in, but have continued as a "collapsed community" that > has both artist and more commerically minded folk. This is probably the > greatest failure of this community. > > Galleries, museums, educational institutions, foundations, event planning > organisations, collectives and others need to be brought into the fold so > that web-based video artists can take their long-deserved place in that > world. They don't know us because we have not reached out to them, and I > find it rather sad. There are people whose online works make video art I've > seen in public art exhibitions with massive funding look like an episode of > Sesame Street. We need to rectify this. > > > > > 2008/8/6 Adam Mercado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > I havent seen the video yet, waiting for the link to arrive. But I step > > up onto my pedestal and > > rant like a bastard, cuz a ranting bastard is what I am. > > > > RE: art for payment > > Good for John for trying to make a living from his art. Anyone decrying him > > for doing this would surely not decline payment for their works of art. And > > I'm not talking about corporate > > whoring paid to produce either. I'm talking about ART. Like the paintings > > you see in the > > gallery. Painted by painters. Or the novels in Barnes and fucking Nobel. > > Written by artists. > > Who are getting paid for their work. No one pays for media? Balls. Like > > Quirk, I pay for > > media, micro media, mass media, teeny tiny piss in the ocean media. If it > > has some value to > > me and I can afford it (yet to spend $2000 on that great gallery painting) > > I'll chip in and > > support a fellow artist. I pay for TWiT. I pay for Adelphia. I pay JunkieXL > > for his music, > > directly. I paid for The Big Issue. I'll spare a few pennies for John if I > > feel his work is worth > > supporting. > > > > RE: torrential distribution > > Who cares how this dude distributes his work. If you dont get it, dont get > > it. True if there > > are not enough seeds we wont see the true benefit of torrenting. But as a > > means of keeping > > off the beaten track, unsearchable, untrackable, it sounds cool. Another > > analogy; the M25 > > raves of the late 80's. You had to be in the know to know who where and > > when the party > > was going down. Take control. Talk about 'get your audience'. > > > > RE: tracker portal project > > As usual i am impressed with the ability of members of this group to just > > get things done. Visionaries and genius. I look forward to see what you > > create. > > > > RE: audience schmordience > > This thread has been a boot in the arse for me. Tried for the past 2 years > > to build an > > audience for my retarded 'daddy vlog' and random rantings, with zero > > fucking success I > > might add. Because you know, it was the thing to do. Keep up with the > > 'movement', get > > comments, be popular. Web2.0. New media, social media. Fuck it all. I > > personally cant wait > > for the next bubble to burst and all the social media poseurs move on to > > the next 'big' > > thing. Who knows, all the true artists will survive doing what they always > > did, what they do. > > All trading torrents, sharing their are free of comments and trackbacks. > > Like net beat poets. > > > > Me, however, I've been a corporate fucktard for too long i think I've > > forgotten how to be an > > artist. But this thread might be anathema to my artistic atrophy. I should > > quit trying to > > appeal to some idiotic notion of audience, to social fucking media, to you > > lot. Start doing > > shit for me again. And I wont ask for a penny. Until I'm popular. > > > > I know this thread, this forum is a public discussion and everyone is > > airing opinions and > > voicing feelings. But really, who gives a shit. Torrent? Who cares? Money? > > Who cares? There > > are bigger arguments to fight over than these. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Jeffrey Taylor > Mobile: +33625497654 > Fax: +33177722734 > Skype: thejeffreytaylor > Googlechat/Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://twitter.com/jeffreytaylor > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
