My host is... my friends own a server.
I've removed plone, media wiki and eveyrthing else from my site precisely do
what we're talking about here. Maintence and security hassles far outweigh
their utility.
No server side code runs on my domain.
My backup is
a) blogger.com contains all the CSS and blog posts
b) I back it up every once and a while via sFTP to be sure to get images and
other media files I've uploaded
And yes, David, you're way spoiled for hosting, and so am I.
I'd suspect the average person uses Dreamhost or like and has little / no
support.
I guess I could bug my friend about server issues, but I did away with the
server side code because I value spending our time discussing linux, open
source, gaming and generally geeking out.
I guess you might say like to play with it, love it for work, but I'm very
careful with what I depend on for my own personal use because I have a
strict zero maintence philosphy. Probably why my primary work computer is
mac though 90% of my software is open source and I spend all day reading up
on and playing with working with/on Ubuntu / KDE / Gnome. ("all day" being a
VERY relative thing :)
Peace,
-Mike
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 10:27 PM, David King <[email protected]> wrote:
> My web hoster actually does most of that for me (the backups, rollbacks,
> etc). I do my own updates to wordpress, customizations, etc - but they do
> everything else. But then, it's a small, service-oriented web hoster shop
> primarly for library-related blogs and websites (how's that for a niche
> market?). If I have a server type question or prob, I just email or IM and
> it gets fixed, pronto.
>
> I'm very spoiled.
>
> David Lee King
> davidleeking.com - blog
> davidleeking.com/etc - videoblog
> twitter | skype: davidleeking
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Meiser <[email protected]
> >wrote:
>
> > Sorry Markus,
> > Everyone fears coming home from vacation to find their website burned
> down.
> >
> > Maybe you can hire a website security company, buy some website insurance
> > or
> > find a website sitter.
> >
> > Seriously though, analogies are not only fun, but how's the following for
> a
> > business idea.
> >
> > A company that you give FTP or sFTP access to your website.
> >
> > It not only backs up everything, and tracks every single change through a
> > web based versioning control system, but can automatic roll back and even
> > flags malicious changes.
> >
> > Make it general consumer friendly.
> >
> > Give it a nice "web 2.0" interface.
> >
> > Sell it to self hosters regardless of whom they're hosting with as
> > "insurance, security, and backup".
> >
> > This not only can be a transparent service instead of bogging down would
> be
> > DIY types with the need to buy your designs or run their workflow through
> > you or use you as a host.
> >
> > But it will let the end user go crazy customizing their code, playing
> with
> > open source, using whatever host provider they want. Giving them true
> > *fredom to tinker*... now that they now have a saftey net.
> >
> > websaftey.net, it's actually available.
> >
> >
> > Does something similar already exist?
> >
> >
> > Now build on it... add in security analysis...
> >
> > ie. making sure permissions are correct on all your files...
> >
> > i.e. giving you status on wether your software installed on your server
> is
> > up to date
> >
> >
> >
> > Maybe... if the technical requirements aren't to bad it could even
> install
> > certain open source packages automatically regardless of hosting
> provider.
> >
> > What about the ability to switch hosts?
> >
> > Or mirror a website on a different domain with the click of a button?
> >
> > The ability to edit or upgrade or test a service and then roll it to the
> > users main site.
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps this webservice could orient the market in a different way.
> Perhaps
> > it could focus on a particular niche say video, customizing it's services
> > for videobloggers...i.e installing wordpress themes vPip, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > At it's core the backup and versioning is more then enough to sell to
> every
> > web2.0 person out there for $5 - $10 a month and make mondo money, but
> the
> > possibilities on where it can go from there are endless.
> >
> > The key is you're doing the same thing to hosting providers as so caled
> > "web2.0" services like gmail have done to Outlook, Eudora and other email
> > desktop clients.
> >
> > You're moving key services from the hosting providers into the "cloud" as
> > services and thus reducing the dependancy on hosting companies
> proprietary
> > features. In a sense your comoditizing the hosting provider the way the
> web
> > is commoditizing the Microsoft OS, Microsoft Office, Outlook, Word,
> Excell,
> > etc.
> >
> > You could go on to make this a gateway and a security net for not so tech
> > savy people so they can try out open source packages regardless of
> > different
> > hosting providers.
> >
> > Perhaps one day... if you base this webservice on open source and work on
> > building standards everyone from drupal to wordpress will work toward you
> > to
> > create a sort of web based "package manager" for the internet.
> >
> > In this way your webservice might install software cleanly onto any host
> > that uses a standardized linux install base. Thus you created an
> > ecosystem.
> > An new sort of API by which hosting providers can interact with
> > webservices.
> >
> > This "package manager for the internet", would be like the package
> managers
> > used on desktop linux, but instead of installing software on your desktop
> > they'd install it on your website... think CMS, wikis, blogs and more.
> > Perhaps even custom videoblogging solutions such as themes, vPIP, etc.
> >
> > The internet is after all the new desktop. The desktop computer for many
> is
> > just a dummy terminal you use to access the internet. Hence the rise of
> the
> > netbook.
> >
> > The internet is where your email is, where your photoalbum/editor are,
> > where
> > your write and where you publish.
> >
> > So why not think of the domain, your website, as the new desktop.
> >
> > Using this metaphor, what other services could be stripped off of the
> > hosting provider?
> >
> > You could possibly even avoid the problems inherent with running server
> > side
> > code on joeblowsblog.com buy creating an "ultra secure" option where all
> > the
> > code is run on this new webservice (similar to what blogger.com does)
> and
> > only static html and files live on joeblow's domain.
> >
> > You could run this whole service through Amazon S3's hosting and
> computing
> > cloud so it scales like the devil, and only charge the user for that
> > processing and hosting that they require.
> >
> > If such "web 2.0" type service could handle the domain management and
> > subdomain it could assign a subdomain to itself, i.e.
> > code.joeblowsblog.comto run, manage, and update joe blow's code
> > securely while leaving only
> > static code (HTML, images, movie files) on joeblowsblog.com.
> >
> > In this way such a service could avoid the pitfalls of setting up
> different
> > open source packages on different hosting providers whom may be using
> > anything from Microsoft, to Debian to unix.
> >
> > Though perhaps if done in open source you could forge relationships with
> > hosting providers that use standardized open source and thus create an
> > interaction model... an API, by which you can create "a standardized
> > package
> > manager for the open source internet"
> >
> > This idea in the end might be two ideas
> >
> > 1) security and a saftey net for self hosters websites
> >
> > 2) and in the bigger picture... a "web based package manager" or "package
> > manager as web service" in the grand web 2.0 style, to install and
> > automatically update open source packages that run on webservers.
> >
> > Not sure I got the point across, maybe / maybe not, but heh I was
> > brainstorming. :P
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Tim Street <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > MIke?
> > >
> > > Why did you have to say that?
> > >
> > > Now I want to go on vacation for a month. ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > Tim Street
> > > [email protected]
> > > http://1timstreet.com/blog
> > > http://twitter.com/1timstreet
> > >
> > > On Feb 8, 2009, at 3:57 PM, Mike Meiser wrote:
> > >
> > > > To use your car analogy most people simply take it to the dealer for
> > > > maintence.
> > > > There is no dealer for self hosting. Dreamhost nor any other provide
> > > > that
> > > > sort of support. That type of structure does not exist.
> > > >
> > > > Most people are not technically literate enough to manage the
> constant
> > > > stream of upgrades. I myself while technically capable, cut a hard
> > > > edge on
> > > > maintence issues. If I go on vacation for a month, I simply don't
> > > > want to
> > > > worry about it. And a month of ignoring it is all it takes... now
> > > > multiply
> > > > that by the rest of your life. Most people underestimate how much
> > > > the long
> > > > term maintence costs are while underestimating their own capactity
> > > > to handle
> > > > that constant maintence.
> > > >
> > > > These people should simply NOT be self hosting... unless they use
> > > > blogger.com which requires no maintence.
> > > >
> > > > It's that simple.
> > > >
> > > > -Mike
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 6:41 PM, David Howell <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm sorry but the Wordpress site owners that are having their sites
> > > > > hacked are the same people that buy a car and expect to never have
> > > > to
> > > > > change the oil in it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Running a self-hosted site means being able to manage one as well.
> > > > If
> > > > > you don't want to manage it, then you use sites like Blogger.
> > > > Blogger
> > > > > is great for that. No frills. No muss. No fuss. No extras.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you dont want to manage it yourself, you hire people like me
> that
> > > > > will not only design and build it but manage it as well. If you
> want
> > > > > to do it all yourself, please read the manual, secure it and keep
> it
> > > > > up do date with patches. Your unsecured site causes problems for
> > > > everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you dont change the oil in your car, dont cry when it's
> > > > eventually
> > > > > sitting dead on the side of the road.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Howell
> > > > > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In [email protected], Mike Meiser
> > > > > <groups-yahoo-...@...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sad to hear. :(
> > > > > > I'm assuming he was running wordpress?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've seen way to many wordpress blogs hacked. The problem is just
> > > > > maintence,
> > > > > > you have to keep wordpress constantly up to date to patch
> security
> > > > > holes. If
> > > > > > you don't it will inevitably get hacked. Same goes for all server
> > > > > side open
> > > > > > source.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Many times I've wanted to redo my blogger.com blog in wordpress,
> > > > indeed
> > > > > > wordpress is simply better, but the truth is blogger.com is
> > > > > virtually hack
> > > > > > proof since there's absolutely no server side code running. It's
> > > > all
> > > > > handled
> > > > > > by blogger.com and written to the server via sftp. I've really
> > > > come to
> > > > > > appreciate this rock solid security and ZERO maintenance, and to
> > > > be
> > > > > honest
> > > > > > it's the primary reason I simply recommend blogger over
> > > > wordpress to
> > > > > anyone
> > > > > > who wants to self host on their own domain. The exception being
> if
> > > > > they're a
> > > > > > developer and already running code on their server, in which case
> > > > > they're
> > > > > > probably aware enough of the maintenance issues to run wordpress.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lately I've been doing a lot of work in the bike industry and it
> > > > > seems the
> > > > > > entire industry from shop owners, to racers to bike makers runs
> > > > almost
> > > > > > exclusively on a blogspot hosted ecosystem. It simply works.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. a good auto-backup system or version control system for your
> > > > > blog is a
> > > > > > MUST if you run wordpress. A lot of hosting providers include
> this
> > > > > stock.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Mike
> > > > > > mmeiser.com/blog
> > > > > > flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Steve Watkins <st...@...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looking back a page or 2 on his twitter history, I think the
> > > > site got
> > > > > > > hacked.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://twitter.com/joshleo
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Steve
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In [email protected], David King
> <davidleeking@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyone know what happened to josh Leo's site (joshleo.com)?
> > > > It looks
> > > > > > > > like it is gone ... & I really like his videos!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just curious
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
