Dear Monica,
I've no problem with this - it's that I had understood you were
asserting that these slashes NEVER meant strums/brushes - whereas I
think they may depending on context (and I suppose personal
inclination)
Martyn
PS I dunno why you think I'd continue a discussion with Lex off list.
The whole point about this forum is that it allows views to be publicly
aired and open to any critique and can certainly concentrate the
mind.......missing out a colon can be catastrophic for example
--- On Sat, 4/9/10, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: stringing and performance - More objections
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Saturday, 4 September, 2010, 17:21
No - that is not what Foscarini means in Rule 5.
You have to look at the example which Fosco refers to - the Corrente
detta
la Favorita on p.60.
On the first line you will see H3 with a 6 beside it and underneath
there is
a
down stroke and an upstroke.
What you are supposed to play here is in tablature...
3 3 c c
5 5 g g
5 5 c c
6 5 f e
3 3 g g
D U
In other words you are inserting a suspended 4th into the first chord
and
resolving it onto the 3rd in the second.
This notational device occurs over and over again in the music and is
perfectly clear. What Fosco means is that you should be able to hear
the
dissonance and its resolution. Both chords should be played in full.
I can't find the message but I think Lex referred to another slightly
different situation in the Aria della Fulia variata on p.23.
This is on the third line down where you see the second letter
C. There
are two down strokes under the C, then the figure 3 on the first course
with
an upstroke followed by another down stroke mark.
In this instance you would play chord C twice. The third time you
would
substitute the 3 (G) for the 2 (F#) on the first course and then
repeat the
proper chord C again.
What you play is
C C 0 C
0
2
3
3
The note G is an upper auxiliary note which is also the 4th resolving
onto
the 3rd in the final chord.. It could be played as a single note or
included in the chord.
In both these examples the note G does have some harmonic implications
- in
the first example it must resolve downwards. In the second it should
either resolve downwards or if it is a passing note rather than an
auxiliary
note it should rise to A. (At least it should go somewhere).
The other situation which Lex referred to which is on p.32 is really
covered by Foscarini's rule 6 - which I wont quote in full but refers
to passages basically in 3 or 4 parts. Fosco says that you should
only play the notes written. As there are strum marks you would have
to include an open course in some instances but this doesn't mean that
you have to do so indiscriminately.
I wont attempt to explain the Pedruil passage but it doesn't make much
sense whichever way you look at it.
Lex must know all this as he plays some of the pieces. If he doesn't
he should. The reason why I got so cross with him was that he was
trying to argue that Rule 5 isn't clear. It is.
I haven't sent the message to him as he has left the list. Feel free
to forward it to him if you want to discuss it with him but count me
out.
Regards
Monica
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Hodgson"
<[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Lex Eisenhardt" <[2]eisenha...@planet.nl>; "Monica Hall"
<[3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[4]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:22 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: stringing and performance - More objections
>
> Dear Monica,
>
> What's the point you're trying to make by repeating this:
>
> 'And if there is a number following after [the letter] either
above or
> > below, you should ensure that this can be heard clearly and
> distinctly,
> > whether the stroke is made up or down. If after any such number
you
> find
> > another stroke WITHOUT a letter, this stroke belongs to the
> preceding
> > letter which should be repeated. This rule applies in general to
> many of
> > the pieces that you may play, and among others it is
appropriate to
> the
> > "Corrente, dette la Favorita" found on page 60.'
>
> Surely it reads that he expects a strum ('stroke up or down') but
that
> one needs to ensure the melody is heard through any accompanying
> harmont. ie precisely what I'm trying to put across to
> you..................
>
> Martyn
> --- On Fri, 3/9/10, Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: Monica Hall <[6]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: stringing and performance
> To: "Lex Eisenhardt" <[7]eisenha...@planet.nl>
> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[8]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Friday, 3 September, 2010, 12:23
>
> > The strict application of Foscarini's fourth rule leads to new
> questions.
> > In
> > many places we first have a chord (for example A major = letter
I),
> then
> > comes a single 3 on the second line of the tab (the note d') and
then
> the
> > strumming continues while there is nothing in the tab. The most
> obvious
> > solution is to return to the original chord, but it is unclear.
If
> the
> > original chord should be strummed in full again, what about the
> single
> > note?
> The fourth rule does not apply in this circumstance. It is
covered by
> Foscarini's Fifth rule.
> And if there is a number following after [the letter] either above
or
> below, you should ensure that this can be heard clearly and
> distinctly,
> whether the stroke is made up or down. If after any such number
you
> find
> another stroke WITHOUT a letter, this stroke belongs to the
preceding
> letter which should be repeated. This rule applies in general to
many
> of
> the pieces that you may play, and among others it is appropriate
to
> the
> "Corrente, dette la Favorita" found on page 60.
> I do wish you lot would actually read these introductions......
> >> This really excludes the idea that all the passing notes should
> always be
> >> accomapnied the chords even if this is possible.
> >
> > Not always, but in certain situations.
> The situations are clearly covered in Foscarini's two rules.
> >
> > By the way, a situation which is very similar to the ex 5 from my
> article
> > (Lute 47) can be found halfway the fourth line of Foscarini's p.
32.
> All
> > strummed, and probably including all courses.
> It also occurs on the first line preceding Chord I+ without a
stroke
> mark.
> Who is to say which is intended given the inconsistency of Fosco's
> notation.
> In both contexts a 3-part chord makes
> more sense. But we have gone over all this before.
> >> This is a very obscure source and there are different ways of
> >> interpreting it. I wouldn't myself regard it as good scholarly
> practice
> >> to jump to conclusions about anything in it.
> >
> > Then don't
> I am not doing - I think there at least three different ways of
> interpreting
> the passage. I was merely suggesting an alternative way of looking
at
> things
> and have never committed myself to one view or the other. It seems
> that you
> have as you haven't even suggested the possiblity that some of the
> chords
> might include fewer than five courses (6/4s excepted).
> >
> > I will have to repeat that I have never intended to say that
barre's
> did
> > not exist. But it seems they were avoided in the _early_ stage,
when
> the
> > guitar and its stringing were emerging.
> Which early stage? How do you know? Even the table of chords in
the
> Cancionero de Bezon includes chords G, H, M and possibly K although
it
> is
> difficult to read.
> >> Moreover all of the songs are in keys which have no key
signature or
> one
> >> flat so that some of the chords are not much use any. The
songs
> are not
> >> necessarily intended to be performed at written pitch. The
whole
> point
> >> of Amat's tables etc. is to enable the player to transpose to a
> pitch
> >> that suites the singer. This would involve the other chords.
> >
> > The table is of the sort of pedantry which we often find in
tutors.
> With which you no doubt are very familiar but dont understand how
to
> use.
> Monica
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > [1][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=eisenha...@planet.nl
3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
4. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
6. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
7. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=eisenha...@planet.nl
8. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
