Yes - that is exactly it! Practicalities trump theory.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Natasha Miles" <natasha.mi...@hotmail.co.uk>
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuela List" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 5:47 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: G chord on Baroque Guitar
Just a thought,
Possibly it has something to do with smooth transition from the chord
most likely to precede G major (chord V, D major).
If you play a D on the second course you have a finger already prepared
for the final G chord.
Natasha
> Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:13:01 +0100
> To: mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> CC: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> From: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: G chord on Baroque Guitar
>
>
> Dear Monica,
>
> When you write 'The point is that the alfabeto chords (and other
> chords) are arranged in the way that most conveniently fits them on
to
> the guitar fingerboard. The order of the notes and which ones are
> doubled is determined by practical considerations not by what anyone
> may have learnt in their harmony course.' your second sentence about
> the irrelevance of formal rules of harmony seems to me to accurately
> reflect how these chords probably became established.
>
> However the first sentence begs the original question: viz. why show
> as 20033 rather than 20003? Here, as others have already pointed
> out, I really do think there was some conscious decision made (by
> strummers before the days of recorded alfabeto) - in my view probably
> to duplicate the fifth rather than the third because the latter was
> already strong being the first course struck in a downwards strum.
>
> Also if there is a bourdon on the fourth course (ie the Corbetta/
> French tuning which might reflect an earlier practice than generally
> recorded - certainly the four course guitar had an octave on the
fourth
> course) if the 2nd course were taken open you would only have one
> string (the higher of the fifth course) for the upper octave fifth
but
> four strings for the thirds; in this case fingering the 2nd
> course gives more equality between the thirds and fifths....
>
> rgds
>
> Martyn
>
> --- On Mon, 10/9/12, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: G chord on Baroque Guitar
> To: "Chris Despopoulos" <despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Monday, 10 September, 2012, 14:32
>
> Well - I think we are getting a bit bogged down here.
> The point is that the alfabeto chords (and other chords) are arranged
> in the way that most
> conveniently fits them on to the guitar fingerboard. The order of the
> notes
> and which ones are doubled is determined by
> practical considerations not by what anyone may have learnt in their
> harmony
> course.
> Most of them can't be easily be rearranged or refingered and in the
> context in
> which they are used there is not a lot of point in doing so. In what
> circumtances would you want to use one form of Chord A rather than
> another?
> The chords in Sanz' Labyrinth are the same old basic chords played in
> different positions on the fingerboard. They are not revoiced or
> re-arranged in any way. What Sanz has in mind is plaing different
> harmonic progressions at different pitches not altering the chords
> themselves.
> I don't perceive music in alfabeto as being a way of "getting you to
> play the guitar" or some sort of stepping stone to doing something
> superior. It is a perfectly valid tradition in its own right. After
> all people had been playing the 4-course guitar for years before
> alfabeto came on the scene. Obviously you can do things like
inserting
> 4-3 suspensions and 7th into the chords and adding ornamentation and
of
> course you can write out completely different chords in tablature.
> Improvisation doesn't mean doing something completely out of
character.
> Monica
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Despopoulos"
> <[1]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>
> To: "Monica Hall" <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>; "David van Ooijen"
> <[3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[4]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:22 AM
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: G chord on Baroque Guitar
> > I have an opinion -- Giving that opinion may open me up to some
> > "clarification", which is why I'm giving it. In other words, if
> I'm
> > wrong about this, please let me know!
> > When playing the modern guitar, I'll choose to add the D on the 2nd
> > course (from high to low) or not, at will. Considerations include
> > practical (as Monica stated for chord changes), leading notes, or
> > general emphasis within the musical context. Everybody learns the
> G
> > chord (modern) in various ways, and then later sees other people
> > playing it with variations. At some point, one tries all the
> > variations at least once.
> > My opinion is that the Alfabeto is there to "get you playing the
> > guitar"... Same as rudimentary chord books today. See your
> typical
> > Ukulele book, for example. Sanz expanded on the Alfabeto with his
> > Labarinto, and makes the claim that with all these chords you can
> now
> > compose whatever variations you want (roughly paraphrased from
> > memory). But (again, my opinion) this is still a guideline meant
> to
> > illustrate the wonderful quality of the guitar, the displacement of
> > chord forms to other positions, yielding other chords. I believe
> > chords, as a concept, were fairly new at the time, and this
> Labarinto
> > was quite the innovation.
> > Further, my opinion is that you will reach a level of playing where
> > your taste dictates your answers to these types of questions, in
> the
> > given situation. This is the level you want to reach, and I think
> Sanz
> > would want you to reach it. If you don't know how or why to play a
> G
> > chord, by all means, use the Alfabeto religiously. If you have
> moved
> > to the next level, take the Alfabeto as a guideline, but add your
> own
> > flavor to the music.
> > I forget where I read it, and it was in the context of interpreting
> > Baroque music on the MODERN guitar, but somebody said (again,
> > paraphrased from memory), "In that time, any musician who failed to
> > improvise on a piece was a boring bird indeed." Something to that
> > effect. (I imagine Richelieu fell into that category... But that's
> > another topic.)
> > cud
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> >
> > From: Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> > To: David van Ooijen <[6]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
> > Cc: Vihuelalist <[7]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:23 PM
> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: G chord on Baroque Guitar
> > My ears have no problem with doubling the 3rd. As I pointed out
> > Chords B, & and N all have the major 3rd doubled. And the
> consonant
> > form of chord L has the minor 3rd doubled. That doesn't seem to
> have
> > bothered guitarists in the 17th century and it shouldn't bother you
> > today either.
> > I doubt whether you have encountered the dissonant form of Chord L
> in
> > your harmony lessons either. That is a purely practical device.
> > Monica
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David van Ooijen"
> > <[1][8]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
> > To: "Vihuelalist" <[2][9]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 10:12 PM
> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: G chord on Baroque Guitar
> > > On 9 September 2012 23:08, Monica Hall
> <[3][10]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> > >> I don't think that doubling the 3rd is an issue or that what
> people
> > learn in
> > >> their harmony lessons today is particularly relevant. I doubt
> > whether
> > >> guitarists at the beginning of the 17th century thought in those
> > terms.
> > >
> > > Neither do today's guitarists who chose for 33002(3), but their
> ears
> > > tell them it's the better choice. In harmony lessons you just
> learn
> > to
> > > give names to what your ears already told you. In other words,
> don't
> > > turn the argument around.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > -- *******************************
> > > David van Ooijen
> > > [4][11]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
> > > [5]www.davidvanooijen.nl
> > > *******************************
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> > --
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:[13]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
> > 2. mailto:[14]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > 3. mailto:[15]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> > 4. mailto:[16]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
> > 5. [17]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
> >
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to%C3%9Espopoulos_chriss@yaho
o.com
> 2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 3.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to%c3%9avidvanooi...@gmail.co
m
> 4.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 5. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 6.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to%c3%9avidvanooi...@gmail.co
m
> 7.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 8.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to%c3%9avidvanooi...@gmail.co
m
> 9.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 10.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 11.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to%c3%9avidvanooi...@gmail.co
m
> 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 13.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to%c3%9avidvanooi...@gmail.co
m
> 14.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 15.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 16.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to%c3%9avidvanooi...@gmail.co
m
> 17. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
>
--
