Thanks Mike,
My failing brain did work out that the diagram in the forwarded link by
Marc did indeed represent one of those push on plastic connectors. The
revelation however came after I had sent my last post and I was staring at the
diagram. Thanks for the clarification.
Today while rummaging around the stored engine which came off my 59
ragtop (a late sixties unit with a post 73 alternator) I noticed the external
regulator lying near it. It is a similar 'box' to the gen ones but a bit
smaller. It had six wires coming out of it which joined a plastic six point
connector. I believe its a Jap aftermarket one as it had no markings as such,
just a torn out sticker at one side.
Could anyone post a link to some pics of the alternator regulators???
The separate ones I have never seen either in person or on the www. The one
which is built in to the later kind of alt I have seen and in fact do have a
loose one lying around too. That is a small thin black plastic unit.
Thanks a lot for describing the later wiring diagrams. Now I do have
the courage to tackle them!
Best regards.
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected]> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008
> 20:43:47 -0400> Subject: Re: [vintagvw] Fitting an Alternator in my 68 bug.>
> > Asad,> The voltage regulators you appear to be describing are mechanical
> types > for generators. You need an outboard, solid-state type regulator
> matched > specifically to your particular model of alternator. As Marc said,
> each > different alternator uses a specific regulator. He failed to mention
> the > fact that they are smaller, solid-state, potted units with a short, >
> multi-conductor harness with a plastic multi-pin connector. That is what >
> he was alluding to when he said that were wires coming out of the regulator.
> > If you have an internally-regulated alternator, it'll have one large >
> threaded terminal that is B+ for your large red wire, one push-on terminal >
> for your blue wire to your dash idiot light, and one threaded screwhole for
> > your brown earth ground wire. If your harness is bastardized, and the >
> colors don't match original, trace them individually and mark the ends with
> > tape that's the color of what they should be. Your externally-regulated >
> alternators are difficult or impossible to setup to work properly without >
> the correctly matched regulator assembly (Bosch, Motorola, etc.).> The later
> 'current-track' wiring digrams don't show the wiring in the > shape of the
> car (like the earlier drawings do), but the circuit is > represented the
> same, from positive source at the top to ground at the > bottom. Use all the
> markings, references, legends, colors, sizes, etc. to > help you get a feel
> for tracing the circuit. When a current track ends in > the middle with
> number, refer to that current track number to see the > continuation of that
> particular circuit. It's usually on a different page, > and this can make it
> harder to trace. But, once you understand this, and > begin working with it,
> it will get easier.> Good luck, and hope this helps.> > Mike B.> > -----
> Original Message ----- > From: "asad ishaque" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To:
> <[email protected]>> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:10 PM> Subject: Re:
> [vintagvw] Fitting an Alternator in my 68 bug.> > > > Thanks Marc for your
> reply,> > The plot only thickens!! Different regulators for generators and >
> alternators??? And I was struggling to find just one!> > Looked at my stash
> and found four regulators. All used but seem > to be in good shape. One is a
> Jap aftermarket unit so out. One is a pre 66 > type which piggy backs onto
> the generator. Out.> > I’m left with two which are probably Brazilian Bosch.
> The first > has the part number 9190063002 (can barely read the number so
> may be off by > a digit or two). There is also the text ‘VA 14V 25A’ and
> then 271 written > on. The terminals are two spade types and one screw on
> type plus one > provision for Earth/ground.> > The second came off a 69
> scrapped at the local yard. I cannot find a > part number anywhere although
> the posts where it should be are clean. It has > the terminals DF, D+ and
> B+. Another unmarked terminal connects to the D+ at > the back.> > Last time
> I checked, the local VW store was out of OEM regulators. > Will check again
> but hopes are not too high. Which leaves me with the last > resort of buying
> an aftermarket Jap/Chinese version off the local market.> > The post 73
> diagrams on the www are stangely complicated. The earlier > ones are a cake
> to read and understand using my knowledge of high school > Physics. Still
> not very sure despite the two forwarded links. The color > codes don’t help
> as the wiring has been messed around with in the past. So > no factory
> colors for me to act as a guide.> > I can run new wires for the three pin
> alternator. The harness must > have been altered several times so it does
> not really matter.> > When you say ‘’ The alternator regulator has four
> wires coming out of > it.’’ Does this mean that this has wires coming out
> instead of push on spade > terminals?> > I’m sorry but I’m still quite
> lost……racking my brains and going > bonkers.......I’m thinking of taking a
> good look and perhaps even dissecting > my current setup and seeing where
> each wire goes. Maybe a sketched wiring > diagram of the current setup would
> give me pointers.> > Thanks for the clarification on the road draft tube.> >
> Best regards,> > Asad> Karachi, Pakistan.> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:42:16
> -0700> From: > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected]> Subject: Re:
> [vintagvw] > Fitting an Alternator in my 68 bug.> > Biggest problem with the
> > externally-regulated ("4-pin" as you put it) alternators is finding a >
> regulator to go with.> On the early factory-alternator cars that used this,
> > it was mounted under the back seat (same place as the regulator for a >
> generator) and there had to be three small wires between there and the >
> engine compartment for connecting to the alternator's D+, D-, and DF >
> terminals. On a generator car like your `68 there aren't enough wires in the
> > harness, so you'll either need to poke a couple through or mount the >
> regulator in the engine compartment.> The wiring isn't difficult. After >
> removing the generator regulator you need to bond all three of the large red
> > wires which went to it together and insulate the connection since it's
> "hot" > at all times.> The alternator regulator has four wires coming out of
> it. One > (blue) is not used.> Brown goes to D-> Green goes to DF> Red goes
> to D+ > ...the blue wire going up to the warning lamp on the dash needs to
> be > spliced into D+ also.> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/schem/gen_alt.htm> >
> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/schem/altreg.gif> > To use the >
> internally-regulated alternator you still need to join the 3 big red wires,
> > but all you have to do is connect the warning light blue wire to the green
> > wire (that was DF on the generator) and connect the other end of the green
> > wire to the D+ terminal on the alternator.> > > The "bent" road-draft tube
> > was adopted in 1968, same time as the warm-air pickup elbow/hose was >
> increased in size.> > > --- On Sat, 6/21/08, asad ishaque > <[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]> wrote:> > > From: asad ishaque > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > Subject:
> [vintagvw] Fitting an Alternator in > my 68 bug.> > To:
> [email protected]> > Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, > 10:42 AM> >
> Hello Volks!> > > > Have a few questions again as I would> > > finally be
> putting on a post 73 style alternator on my> > daily driven 68 > bug.> > > >
> I have a three pin (actually with four> > connectors in total) > alternator
> serviced and ready to go> > in. > > > > Meanwhile I also bought > another
> three pin> > and a two pin alt. That makes me ‘rich’ with three> > > spare
> alternators! > > > > Now the questions:> > > > -Is the two pin model >
> better than the three pin one??? In> > that case I would like to put this on
> > my daily driver> > instead of the ready three pin one.> > > > -I am quite
> > sure the two pin has a builtin solid state> > regulator. How do I check
> this > for good working state??> > > > -How do I connect the three pin alt
> to the > wiring on my> > daily driven 68 which currently has a Japanese
> aftermarket> > > generator slapped on (discussed here before).> > > > -Can
> anyone guide me > in ‘idiot’s terms’ on the> > connections of both the two
> and three pin > models? I shall> > look at the Bentley wiring diagrams
> tonight but maybe > some> > pointers would help.> > > > -Is it possible for
> me to service the > alternators at home??> > When I had the first one done
> at a local shop, all > he did> > was clean the insides up, replace the
> bearings and did a > > > Continuity Test between the winding and the
> armature. It> > looked like > something I can handle myself. Any
> suggestions?> > > > > > Have a few > holidays from work so plan to dive head
> first> > into this tomorrow or day > after.> > > > Thanks in advance.> > > >
> Asad> > Karachi, Pakistan.> > > > > PS: Btw while shopping for alternator
> pedestals I have come> > across two > styles of breather pipe assemblies.
> One has an> > almost straight drain pipe > while other has it with a couple>
> > of bends. What was this difference > for??> > > > > >
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