Hello Raul and list, I've been reading through this thread on GPS
solutions and trying to sort everything out. I've actually been
contemplating purchasing the Sendero GPS product for the BrailleNote,
as I've played around with the demo and it's absolutely armed to the
teeth in terms of functionality. In fact I have a feeling that if cost
were not a factor, it would be entirely in a class of its own in terms
of GPS products for the blind. As I understand it, the Breeze doesn't
offer quite the same functionality as the Sendero product, but it's
rapidly catching up.
I'm really really disappointed with the corresponding products on the
iPhone, for the reason that they're a bit too "fiddly," with some
features totally absent. For example, the reality is that whether
you're walking around your city, your college campus, or a new place,
you're going to encounter parks, cul-de-sacs, residential areas, and
the like, which make all mainstream GPS apps pretty much a no-go. For
example, at my home and on the campus where I am currently studying,
there are lots and lots of these "non-street areas," and the only app
that's really ever given me confidence in it is Sendero. One of its
most valuable assets is the ability to set up routes (yes, both on
streets, in parks, in the country, and in combinations of those) with
specific turning points, landmark names, and instructions. Routes can
be basic turn-by-turn ones set up automatically, or specific, manual
routes with instructions such as "approaching forty-five degree turn
right" etc.. Sendero can even track where you have walked and set up a
route based upon your GPS data, all automatically. I mean, Ariadne GPS
can guide you to a specific point (provided there's an internet
connection) but in order to really follow a "route," you'd have to set
up and organize hundreds of favorites, which isn't really what it was
intended to do. Commercial apps like Tom Tom and Navigon offer turn by
turn directions in urban areas, but that wouldn't work for me in
either of the areas in which I frequently travel since parts of them
are not urban, and even the parts which are urban are not
straightforward enough where turn by turn street directions are
sufficient. Of course, to switch between several GPS apps on the
iPhone you have to stop walking frequently and fumble around with the
phone, which is a bit distracting and not totally what I want. You can
go to a specific favorite or you can have turn by turn directions;
that seems to be just about it. I don't know, it just doesn't seem to
quite "do it" for me after using the Sendero demo.
Don't get me wrong, this isn't a rant, far from it; I love my iPhone
and all the wonderful things it can do. It'll be interesting to see
what Sendero's app is capable of doing when it's released. But for
now, plunking down some serious cash (if possible, of course) seems to
me to be the best thing to do, for Sendero if you have a BrailleNote,
or as the next-best option, the Breeze.
Grant
On 5/9/12, Raul A. Gallegos<[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Krister. I'm with you in that I would rather go for an
off-the-shelf, or mainstream product which can address my GPS needs. At
least, as long as the program can be used by me. Right now, the
combination is Navigon and Ariadne. Some will argue that using two apps
to accomplish one thing is not acceptable, but I would disagree. After
all, many of those same people already use two or more apps to do other
same things. For example, Dropbox and Droptext. Read to Go and in daisy.
Digit-Eyes and Red Laser. Prismo and Text Grabber. How many of us out
there already use two or more apps to do the same thing? Why does the
app store have so many apps which do the same thing or similar same
things? This is what using a device like the iPhone is all about. Some
apps might have enough features that another one isn't necessary. For
example, I personally don't care to have the next street announced as I
get there. Yet I see this as a frequent request and need when people
want GPS programs on the iPhone. When I worked for GW Micro and helped
to develop the SenseNav software which is the SEndero offering on the
Voice Sense and Braille Sense, I too was asked by users to make sure the
up-coming street feature worked well. I used to personally turn it off
when using it on my own. As for developing a blind-only app, let me
remind everyone that when SEndero came out with their Lookaround app,
many people got it because it came from a Blindness software company and
didn't care that they paid $5 for it, yet many people complained at the
level of what they got for their $5 because they felt they could get the
same, or more from other apps which cost less, or which are free.
Because we are a very small market, an app which can only be used by the
blind, or which mainly the blind will purchase, will be more expensive.
This is why program updates have cost Sendero GPS users around $150 per
year. The cost goes into development and for map licensing. I believe
that one of the reasons Navigon costs the way it does is because of the
maps that you are able to download. Yet if you look at apps which use
map data in the cloud, such as Mapquest or the default Maps app, they
don't cost anything. So my guess is that if you are able to store maps
off line, the cost will be more because of the licensing. Regarding the
$49 price tag for Navigon, just imagine how much more it would be if
only blind people purchased it? The reason it's as low as it is has to
do with the many hundreds of purchases. I'll be curious and excited to
see what Sendero has to offer when they come out with their iOS solution
which is supposed to meet all of the mostly requested needs. However I
wouldn't be surprised if it costs more than $50. If I am wrong, then
I'll give myself an "I told you so" lecture.
I hope this makes some sense. I'm not trying to say blind-only apps are
bad, and I'm not trying to say that companies like Sendero can't make a
better product. I'm just saying that what's out there now, isn't bad.
Also, as has been pointed out, map sources are very few and so the map
quality you get from different programs won't be that much different.
Usually what people like, dislike, pay for, or get free, is the user
interface and the features which can be had from that interface.
Cheers!
--
Raul A. Gallegos
My body isn't a temple, it's a maximum security prison for fat.
Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47
Facebook: http://facebook.com/rgallegos74
On 5/9/2012 5:39 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
Hi,
I stand corrected regarding the map updates, but i heard that a while
back you actually had to pay a huge amount for an update with new maps
etc, can be wrong though. I think though that the only solution available
here in Sweden is Trekker Breeze and how that is regarding updates, and if
they occur regularly and worldwide i don't know. However, i hold to the
view that i much rather prefer an off-the-shelf solution than having to
fork out loads of money on reinventing the wheel, but that's stupid me.
/Krister
9 maj 2012 kl. 01:37 skrev Raul A. Gallegos:
Hi, Sendero GPS uses Tele Atlas maps which btw, are the same as what
Google Maps use. So updates happen when they are available. Maybe you are
thinking of program updates, which are slightly differently. FRom what I
know, Sendero has come out with an update at least once per year,
sometimes even more.
Thanks.
--
Raul A. Gallegos
Never have more children than you have car windows. - Erma Bombeck
Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47
Facebook: http://facebook.com/rgallegos74
On 5/8/2012 7:25 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
Hi Mark and others.
I really don't understand one thing in this whole discussion of what gps
system to use. I don't like the blind specific solutions from Sendero
and others. From what i have heard, the maps very seldom if ever get
updated, which means that how ever good the gps is at various
anouncements, the maps we follow will be obsolete, so the pois wi want
simply won't be there.
Another thing is that a mainstream off-the-shelf gps app could easily be
modified so that it speaks whatever you desire it to speak. I say
easily, thereby taking a risk since i don't know anything about
programming, but remember that the blind specific gps-es sends their
info to the speech synth/screen reader rather than talks via a recorded
voice, am i right? If so there are means for an app such as Navigon to
send the things we want it to send, such as street names and such to the
screen reader, in this case VoiceOver. We have seen this done before, in
games like Kings corner, chat apps like IM plus and gps apps like
Ariadne, so Navigon, Tomtom and others should be able to do this, if
someone with much, much better programming knowledge than me could
describe the solution to the developers of said apps. If they then will
listen, that's a totally different story but it could be done. Am i
totally wrong in this?
/Krister
8 maj 2012 kl. 12:40 skrev Les Kriegler:
Hi Mark,
I really enjoyed reading your most informative post. I also purchased
the Trekker Breeze at the end of last year. I did so because I wanted
an more comprehensive way of accessing walking routes. I do like
street names announced, and I have not been able to get that reliably
from the commercially
available apps. If a company like Sendero comes out with an app
comparable to Mobile Geo, I'll probably obtain it, but for now, the
Breeze is a really good option and I've made good use of it. Also,
even though we have GPS in our vehicle, my wife actually prefers all of
the information the Breeze provides when we are on route.
Les
On May 7, 2012, at 7:30 PM, M. Taylor wrote:
Hello Everyone,
In 2005 I purchased my first GPS solution; it was the Trekker/Maestro
Del 51
PDA from HumanWare. If memory serves, among other difficulties, the
PDA did
not have an Off button. When not in use, it had to be plugged into a
charger to prevent power loss. Be that as it may, it was the most
amazing
piece of technology I had experienced.
Back in those days, I was using a Motorola TimePort which was an
upgrade to
the Star Trek Motorola phone. Of course, these phones had virtually
no
accessibility but, still they were usable.
Sometime in 2007/2008 I switched to my first Windows Mobile phone.
That was
to be the beginning of a lot of changes in my life not the least of
which
was my subsequent association with Code Factory.
Enter Mobile Geo; this onboard GPS software solution put the power of
true
independent GPS navigation for the blind and low vision on a cell
phone.
So, I put away my then outdated Trekker/Maestro PDA.
Then, of course, came yet another game changer; the iPhone.
For whatever reason I thought that either Code Factory's Mobile Geo or
Humanware's Trekker would find its way to iOS. This, obviously, did
not
happen.
As a result, since iPhone 3GS, I have purchased virtually every iOS
GPS
navigation software app in hopes of bringing the power of Geo or
Trekker to
a single mobile device. I shutter to think of all the money I have
spent on
this endeavor (smile).
As far as off-the-shelf iOS GPS navigation solutions are concerned, I
hold
that A T& T Wireless Navigator is the most accurate and easy-to-use
app on
the market. Recently, they added the ability to download the maps to
your
phone so you can now travel without benefit of a active satellite
connection. I believe that the monthly cost for Navigator is $9.95.
As wonderful as Navigator is, it falls short of meeting the one
criteria I
demand in order to recommend it, or any GPS app for that matter, as a
solution for true independent navigation by the blind and low vision;
said
criteria being the ability to have streets, cross-streets, etc
automatically
announced without engaging any kind of route function or without
having to
touch, shake, or otherwise interact with the hardware device, itself.
Until this past Thursday, my solution, when traveling independently,
was to
fire up my old beloved Samsung Epix, running Windows 6.1, and
launching Geo.
I could go on and on about how much of a pain this was given that I
can
hardly remember any of the Mobile Speak commands as I just don't use
my
beloved Samsung Epix anymore but I will spare you the gory details.
Add to
this the fact that I also had to fire up my GPS receiver and connect a
special headset adaptor as the Epix does not have a standard headset
jack,
as many of the models in that era did not.
ON Friday, I received my new Trekker Breeze from Humanware; thus, I
have
come full-circle, as the saying goes.
Suffice me to say that the Breeze is every bit as marvelous as the
original
Trekker and Geo were with the advantage that one does not have to
become a
software geek in order to be up and running in a matter of minute. It
works
right out of the box.
The Breeze is roughly the same size as the iPhone 4 S but just a
little
thicker.
What an iOS world we live in; even before I powered on my Breeze for
the
first time, I turned the audio CD files that are included in the
package
into an audio book complete with cover art and placed it on both my 4
S and
Nanno. Then, I converted the user guide and quick start guide into
iBooks
and placed them on my 4 S. This took only a few minutes. Only after
performing these iOS-centric tasks did I power on the Breeze and begin
yet
another chapter in my GPS navigation life.
Mark
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