I didn't think I was either whining or complaining! I didn't attack or flame anyone. I think I was just stating my opinion and pointing out that I didn't think trial ware was all bad or was an example of extortion or bait and switch.
BTW, I'd also suggest that if people want to have a topic ended or declared off topic they do that by working with the moderators off list. I've never seen individual members trying to be moderators work out well for a list. Here's what Raul said on the list a few weeks ago: Hello Everyone, As you probably know by now, Cara has asked me to help moderate the VIPhone list. Let me first say that this doesn't change how the list is run, and she's still very much the owner. I'm just here to help out. It simply means that we are trying to be more efficient in handling any questions or issues which are list related. Things usually go more smoothly when there is more than one person to help out with a large list as this. Second, I'm still a list contributor and fellow iOS user. I'll only put on my moderator's uniform when I need to. The best way you can tell if a message I'm writing to the list is of a moderated nature is if I put a moderator note in the subject line and if my signature indicates moderator. If not, then I'm just another poster like the rest of you. A little about me. I've been on this list since the summer of 2010 when I got the iPhone 3GS. It was just after the iPhone 4 came out and so the price of the 3GS had dropped. In a way I got it grudgingly because it was there and my Nokia had just died. I figured I would just use it as a phone, but wouldn't get into the apps and other neat features. I couldn't have been more wrong. If I tell you how much it changed my life or my phone usage or the way I feel about phones it would start sounding like another cliche and I don't want that. Suffice it to say, I love the iPhone and I love sharing knowledge. I now have the iPhone 4S and an iPod Touch 3rd Gen. This leads me to a few more things about me which some of you may or may not know. I am a family man with a wife, 3 kids, a dog, a cat, and a minivan. There I go into another cliche of the American life. Next I'll tell you I have a house with a big yard and I live in a quiet neighborhood. Oops, well this is true. Anyway, up until July last year I worked for GW Micro, the Window-Eyes screen reader guys. Since then I've been working from home and so have a bit more time to do other projects. I'm an avid gamer and sarcastic person, but also someone who respects others. Since I have a wife and kids, I have patience. Although, many would say it's my wife who has more because of dealing with my personality. Speaking of respect and kids, I can promise you guys that I will do my best to respect you, and to not treat anyone like a kid. Regardless of the ages of all the group members, (which by the way are quite a bit), I feel that we are all adults here and can act accordingly. When I say adult, I'm not speaking of the legal or cultural definition of adulthood, but about the maturity level. If you visit http://www.marcandangel.com/2007/08/17/what-is-adulthood-20-defining-characteristics-of-a-true-adult/ you will see what I mean. So with this in mind, Cara and I have come up with a list of guidelines for the list. I am not calling them list rules because that sounds a bit severe. And since we are all adults here, we should not have any problems keeping the following in mind when posting to the list. 1. We are all in the ballroom at VIPhone Manor. Think of the mailing list as a huge room where all the list members are hanging out and sharing ideas, experiences, asking questions, ETC about our favorite iOS devices. There is a wireless microphone being passed around and every time someone posts to the list, they hold the microphone for that glorious moment and everyone in the room gets to hear what they have to say. However if that same someone responds privately to another list member instead of posting to the list, the conversation is kept quiet and no one in the ballroom is aware of it. Please try and consider when you want to post to the list, does everyone need to hear what I have to say, or does only the person I'm having a conversation need to hear it. Lively and positive list discussion is encouraged as long as it remains on topic. Personal conversations or things which are obviously meant for one person are not. Some good examples of holding the microphone for everyone to hear are: Posting about a new app or an update to an app. Discussing good and bad points about an app or a specific iOS device. Sharing experiences about an app or a situation where the iOS device made a difference in something you did. Asking questions about the accessibility of an app. Comparing apps or iOS devices. Some not-so-good examples of holding the microphone for everyone to hear are: Posting one-liner messages such as "me too", "thank you", or "your welcome" and not adding to the discussion at hand. Asking a specific person for their email address when it's right there in the message you are responding to. Treating someone with no respect, or talking down to someone who might not have an answer to a question. Trying to moderate the list yourself. 2. Tolerance and patience. This list is comprised of over 1000 people with a varying range of education, background, ethics, and age. Because of this we ask that you all show tolerance toward each others' style of writing and expression. If you feel that a list member has posted a message which is offensive, unreadable, grammatically or syntactically incorrect please do not complain about it on list. You can either ignore the message, or take it up with me or Cara privately. Flaming the list member on list would not be cool at all. There are times when emotions can get hot, and if this happens, it's ok to step back and let things cool down. If action is required by the moderators, let us handle it. 3. Use appropriate language. Foul language is not acceptable on list. We realize that some words are not considered foul language in certain parts of the world or in the context used. However when posting to the list decide on whether your message would be appropriate in a children's book or if it would be tolerated in grade school. 4. Fellowship. The VIPhone list doesn't only exist to serve as a database of questions and answers. That is what knowledge bases, FAQs, and Google searches are for. In addition to exchanging knowledge, This list is a place for us to fellowship in some small way. Although personal chat-like posts will always creep up on list, they are not condoned. It is in our nature to want to discuss things with each other. They might start off as iOS related but then might stray to other areas. If this happens, please move the discussion off the list so it can remain on topic. It is very easy for a discussion about a weather app to morph into a discussion about the weather in your city and how your pets feel about the recent climate changes. 5. Appropriate postings. It goes without saying, but please take care to post messages which are iOS related. Asking questions about the best Android app for your checkbook, or finding the best places to vacation next summer are not considered on topic. If you post links to web sites or podcasts or downloads, make sure they are public links or that you have permission to post them. Postings containing salacious or defamatory material, piracy, cracking/hacking of any software, and anything illegal are unacceptable and inappropriate. 6. Moderating members. I hate writing this one, but it has to be said. We realize that most everyone here is here to get information from the list and wants to participate in positive discussion. However there are always a few bad apples in a large group. (Pun intended). It's these bad apples which can ruin it for others. Unfortunately if a topic on list gets out of hand, or someone starts flaming others on list, steps need to be taken. So, please rest assured that if list members need to be spoken to regarding list postings, or list behavior, it will be done. 7. List traffic. We realize that list traffic can get a bit overwhelming at times. This is especially true when a new iOS version comes out. Just know that usually the increase in traffic during a new iOS release is just temporary. However you can always do your best to help minimize that list traffic by following the guidelines you are reading. Additionally you can switch to digest mode which bundles many messages into one large one, or you can set filters in Gmail, or in your specific mail program so that list messages are not flooding that precious inbox. 8. List archives. The archives for this list are now available at www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ which is very speech friendly and can be searched. Because this is a recent addition, the public archive doesn't have many posts. You can rest assured that it will grow in time. This is a great resource to finding that answer you are looking for regarding a past topic. One which comes to mind is, "How do I enable or disable the compact voice?" I personally feel that searching the archives from this page are easier than searching them from the Google Groups web site, however both can be done. You will notice that the footer at the end of each message to the list has been modified to now include the public list archive address. That's it for the list guidelines. Remember that if you have any suggestions, comments, complaints, or constructive criticism regarding the list. Let me and/or Cara know. We will do our best to make things right. Happy iOSing. -- Raul A. Gallegos - VIPhone Moderator Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47 Facebook: http://facebook.com/rgallegos74 On 24/06/12 12:55, Anthony Vece wrote: > Come on. > Haven't you people anything better to do. > Knock it off. > Winers and complainers. > > > Sent from my Verizon iPhone! > > On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:47 PM, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Trialware is not uncommon, so I wouldn't consider this a example of bait >> and switch or extortion. It was never stated that the app would always >> be free, and it didn't tie you into something like an email address or a >> phone number that you'd want to keep after it stopped being free. I'm >> not sure what Apple's policy is on this, and I think you have a point >> that it should have probably been clear up front that it's trialware. >> >> BTW, I like free versus paid versions of apps, but I also like >> trialware. I like being able to check out the benefits and accessibility >> of the more advanced features you only get in the paid version before I >> have to pay for it. >> >> On 24/06/12 09:51, Keith Watson wrote: >>> Mike, >>> >>> Again, apparently you don't read very well. As I said in my previous posts >>> had he placed the price at $1.99 or $4.99 up front I would probably have >>> bought it. If he puts a free limited version and a paid full version in the >>> store I would buy the paid version. Your assumption that I am bitching >>> about it costing money is totally and utterly off base. Before you go >>> throwing the blind card I suggest that you digest what the person is >>> attempting to impart. I have and will continue to support apps that are >>> created for our community. Your assertion that I am one of "those" blinds >>> who believe that everything for blind consumption should be handed to us >>> without cost is incorrect and quite frankly offensive. My intent in voicing >>> my opinion this morning was to indicate to Ben that I think he made a >>> mistake in the way he implemented his pricing model and maybe that he >>> should possibly rethink it, not to get into a pissing match with you or >>> anyone else. >>> >>> Nuff said! >>> >>> Keith >>> >>> On Jun 24, 2012, at 10:23 AM, Mike Maslo wrote: >>> >>>> Keith: >>>> >>>> Good job so drop the subject. No one had a gun to your head forcing you to >>>> buy anything. >>>> >>>> The next time something is free we will make sure it is totally free for >>>> you. We will ensure that everything you buy s free also. >>>> >>>> My guess is if it would have been $1.99 up front you would have complained >>>> about the fact that it did not have all the features you wanted and then >>>> demanded a refund. >>>> >>>> >>>> Some time you can not make everyone happy. I leanred that while working and >>>> I see it is true here too. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >>>> Of Keith Watson >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 9:20 AM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: Voicebook VO Notice >>>> >>>> Apparently you don't read very well. I have removed it. >>>> >>>> On Jun 24, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Mike Maslo wrote: >>>> >>>>> Keith >>>>> >>>>> Remove the app and call it a day >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 24, 2012, at 8:57 AM, Keith Watson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> Nowhere in the description on the app store did he indicate that there >>>> was limited functionality with in app purchases to enable additional >>>> functionality. It is my own policy not to use apps that adhere to this >>>> model. Personally I think it's a form of extortion and I don't play in that >>>> sandbox. Set a price for full functionality up front and let me decide if I >>>> am willing to pay that price. That is my point. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now on to your point. I reviewed the description in the app store when I >>>> purchased the app. Nowhere did it indicate that I was going to eventually >>>> have to pay something for what I was downloading. Now after 30 days he >>>> posts >>>> to this list that this would be happening, and the only reason he posted >>>> was >>>> because there was a bug in the app that didn't give you the correct price. >>>> Had there not been a bug I would have attempted to post something and then >>>> been prompted with a popup saying that this functionality no longer worked >>>> and if I wanted to use this functionality I would have to pay $1.99 for it. >>>> In my book this is extortion. Granted you are thinking that I am a dick and >>>> it's only 2 dollars so shut the hell up. But like I said before, had he >>>> charged me 2 dollars up front I would not be offended, insulted and >>>> disgusted. I think that our society has left principles behind, but I am >>>> old >>>> enough to have been raised by a generation that valued them and I intend to >>>> hold to mine. You and everyone do what you feel you must, me I deleted the >>>> app and am informing Apple of this behavior. If it meets there criteria >>>> then >>>> so be it. Don't think for a second that I would not and have not done this >>>> to other developers. If not for our voices then how can they know when >>>> there >>>> is a problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben, should you decide to make a limited free version and a paid full >>>> featured version available on the app store I would be glad to purchase it. >>>> I really do like the app and wish you well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Keith >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 24, 2012, at 9:29 AM, Matthew Campbell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi there. >>>>>>> Hold on, slow down, and take a deep breath. This app does have "limited >>>> functionality." >>>>>>> It states this quite clearly in the email Ben sent to the list. It says >>>> that you can read but not post. This is clearly you're "limited >>>> functionality." Also, you are not being forced to pay any money if you just >>>> want to read posts. The only reason you pay is to post and comment. >>>>>>> Once again, I urge you to read the email carefully, and you'll see what >>>> I've just spent time spelling out for you. >>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>> Matthew Campbell. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2012-06-24, at 8:25 AM, Keith Watson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anthony, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's one app. There is not a free version and a paid version. It's >>>> fully functional for 30 days and then you have to pay $1.99 to continue to >>>> use the functions. Quite frankly I think this is against Apple policy and I >>>> will be asking them about this. Here in the states we have laws against >>>> bait >>>> and switch schemes. Had he offered a totally free version with limited >>>> functionality and a fully functional paid version I would not have a >>>> problem >>>> and would actually have bypassed the free version and purchased the paid >>>> version right off. I think that this is sneaky and underhanded behavior and >>>> will not support it, no matter how good or helpful the app is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Keith >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 23, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Anthony Vece wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I hope so. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, what does the paid version do that the free version does not do. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon iPhone! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 23, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Laura ann Grymes, LMT" >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> not yet but it may be coming soon. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 23, 2012, at 11:25 AM, Anthony Vece wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you share photos, links and, other Facebook posts? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> voicebook vo FAQ >>>>>>>>>> http://www.activeinfosys.com/apps/42-voicebook-vo/59-voicebook-vo-faq >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> voicebook vo roadmap >>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.activeinfosys.com/apps/42-voicebook-vo/61-voicebook-vo-roadmap >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura Ann -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
