These are all salient points to consider, but also considering the sheer amount of cash Apple has at its disposal, I'm reluctant to cut Apple much if any slack on problematic issues like this. They have the resources available to them that if they wanted to make dealing with and avoiding accessibility bugs and limitations a priority, they could do so without skipping a beat. I mean come on, they have so much available cash on hand that they make Scrooge McDuck look like some bum scrounging for quarters in the gutter. There is absolutely no reason why their accessibility department or any department under the Apple umbrella should be understaffed or stretched thin. Even with the new Apple TV OS aside, a lot of these bugs already discussed are either newly introduced bugs not present in older iterations of software or hardware or have solutions to them when using alternative assistive technology I.E. Windows screen readers, Android OS, etc. Often pretty basic and essential stuff. Cara's highlighting of the dial tone bug with VO is a perfect example of this. I can understand the challenges where you're developing new technologies and figuring out stuff as you go along, and maybe in this case, there simply aren't enough people or knowledge out there to address all the inevitable road blocks that pop up as part of the process, but for well established fields and problems that at this point shouldn’t be problems anymore, again, no slack to be cut.
-----Original Message----- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marshall Scott Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 3:29 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: apple tv 4th generation thoughts I think there are two major reasons for the recent problems with accessibility at Apple. The first is that Apple now has to develop and support software and hardware for four product lines. These lines are OS X, iOS for iDevices, the apple Watch and finally Apple TV. Apple also has to support older devices like the iPhone 4S. The differences between these products may be slight but they have to be tested. The second issue is that Apple has decided on a 12 month release schedule. As a former programmer, I feel like this is too short a development cycle to really fix bugs in software Just my opinion. Marshall > On Nov 29, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Cara Quinn <caraqu...@caraquinn.com> wrote: > > ben, I couldn’t agree with you more here. > > I feel now that the more we are complacent about quietly dealing with the > mounting accessibility issues over the various OS roll-outs and new Apple > products, the worse this situation is unfortunately likely to become. > > The truth is that Apple has been doing incredible things in the access world > over the last several years and they really should be settling into their > groove now, not out of it. > > Unfortunately though, the later seems to be what is happening. > > Now I know that the accessibility team is stretched thin and has been for > some time now, and they are truly committed people who really do work hard to > make these technologies work for us, but some of these issues are QA (quality > assurance) issues in my opinion. Some of these obvious issues need to be > given higher priority than they seem to be receiving. Now I know that there > is a lot going on inside Apple that I am not aware of so some of what I say > may be well out of line here, (and I do apologize if this is the case) but as > a consumer and long-time advocate of Appel’s efforts, I feel I do have some > right to express these sentiments. > > The people on the accessibility team are awesome folks but the fact is that > more and more, visually impaired consumers are having to deal with what I do > feel is becoming somewhat second-rate access experiences with some Apple > products and /or OS releases. This is simply unacceptable. > > I know this is anything but intentional on the part of the access team but it > is still simply unacceptable and I feel this needs to be said. > > to illustrate this, when iOS 8 came out, one extremely serious issue was the > sticking touch tones (which would prevent people from making calls) on the > iPhone. Who on earth let this walk out the door? Who thought that this would > be okay? For God’s sake, the iPhone is first and foremost a phone after all, > and to have that very function released with such an incapacitating bug for > users of Voiceover is so far beyond crazy that I honestly cannot express > myself here within this list’s language guidelines. > > If you are tasked with testing a phone, what is the first thing you test? Can > you make a call? Can you do it again? Can you do it five more times? Can you > make the call on the other models of phone you produce? You get the idea… > > As I have recently said on another list, Apple has the pick of the cream of > the crop of engineers, designers and any other professionals it requires. So > why is this happening? What is the excuse?… > > Honestly, there is none… > > So what do we do about it? Certainly, posting here can be cathartic but it > may not reach those it needs to. Yes, we can write accessibil...@apple.com > however, those communications may not actually go directly to the engineers > in the accessibility department like it used to. > > I personally feel that we need to secure several options for ourselves now to > be assured of good access to technology. I do feel we need to stay in touch > with Apple in a very active sense. I also feel we need to look at all > technology options besides Apple products and similarly stay actively in > touch with their respective developers and / or companies as well. > > I personally intend to stay with Apple products for the majority of my tech > needs, but quite honestly, I also feel the time is now in general, in the > tech world where the awareness level is much better than it ever has been. > Discussions are happening; conferences are covering access. I see more > discussion now on programming forums about accessibility and interested > developers asking questions. etc. > > My point is that Apple has been a true trailblazer here and while I hope they > find it in themselves to improve what they are doing now, I feel that we need > to really make our voices heard in general so that accessibility can really > be a forefront topic of conversation for technology in general. > > This can only benefit us… > > I would welcome others’ opinions on this as well. What are your thoughts? How > do you feel we should address these issues? > > As I said I am by no means ditching Apple here. The truth is, I love my Apple > products and I love the fact that they have Voiceover. It’s just that it’s a > love / hate relationship sometimes now. That’s all! :) > > So what do you think? Chime in if you like… > > Thanks so much for reading and please do have a wonderful rest of your > weekend and happy holiday season! > > Cheers! > > Cara > --- > iOS design and development - LookTel.com > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > > http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn > > Follow me on Twitter! > > https://twitter.com/ModelCara > > On Nov 29, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose <b...@benmr.com> wrote: > > This is correct, but this simply shouldn't be the case. As it stands, > given the lack of apps and the VO issues, I have to add a few caveats > whenever I recommend that someone buys one because in my opinion it > simply isn't ready for primetime yet. The TV has been shipping for > around a month now and I haven't noticed any updates to the OS to fix > any of the issues that I and others have experienced. Some will argue > that I should email the accessibility address, but we're talking about > some really obvious issues here - E.G. "poster" being spoken instead > of app names and Siri screens being inaccessible. These are things > that Apple know about and have chosen not to fix. I'm confident that > at some point in the future these issues will be resolved, but when? > Should we really be content with spending what is for most people a > fairly large amount of money on a device in the hope that at some > point in the future it will be fully accessible? > > On 11/29/15, MamaPeach <mamapeac...@gmail.com> wrote: >> The new Apple TV, with updates, will improve over time, just like anything >> else that is newly released, such as any new versions of IOS. It takes >> people letting them know what issues they encounter in order for them to >> consider fixing them. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ben Mustill-Rose >> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:49 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: apple tv 4th generation thoughts >> >> Hi, >> >> It's good but still feels like a bit of a beta product. The remote has >> sensitivity issues - E.G. I unknowingly purchased a film when it was >> in my pocket and there are some annoying VO issues but nothing that is >> a show stopper in my opinion. >> Given the fairly small range of apps available at the moment it's >> definitely expensive for what it is, but hopefully this situation will >> improve in the future. >> >> Cheers, >> Ben. >> >> On 11/28/15, Larry Lumpkin <llump...@austin.rr.com> wrote: >>> Hello all. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts concerning the apple tv 4. >>> Do >>> you like it? Do you not like it? Why not? Etc. thanks very much. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>> list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>> if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> >>> or >>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn >>> - >>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 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