I have given some thought to getting a mac when I can afford it. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Kliph Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 1:24 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: We Deserve Better from Apple Why I Can No Longer Recommend a Mac to Fellow Blind Computer Users.
I second that, I have to use windows for work, and you wouldn’t believe how many trouble tickets I have to submit a week for jaws issues. > On Oct 15, 2023, at 9:39 PM, Ed Worrell <[email protected]> wrote: > > This article is very, very, very late to the game. I have not had this issue > with Safari freezing on my Mac computers in a very long time. Probably in > over 3 years. I really don’t understand the hatred from the post on AppleVis. > The AppleVis site has become very negative in the last few years. I’m not > saying Apple is perfect by any means, but this goes a bit far. I have had > more issues with my Windows 11 machine with JAWS installed, over the last > year. > > Ed > > >> On Oct 8, 2023, at 8:43 PM, Mike Arrigo <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Chrome and Firefox both work really well. >> >>> On Oct 8, 2023, at 7:40 PM, Ron Canazzi <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Group, >>> >>> Since this editorial involves primarily Safari browser and since there are >>> other browsers such as Firefox that can be used on the Mac, has anyone >>> tried Firefox on a Mac or perhaps any other browser? >>> >>> >>> On 10/8/2023 7:35 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: >>>> I love my iPhone and even my Apple TV, but while I tried Voiceover on a >>>> MAC a little, it is not a system I would want to deal with on a day-to-day >>>> bases. >>>> Maybe that is because I have been using Jaws at first with DOS in 1989 and >>>> since the mid 90’s with Windows, but I can’t even imagine what such a bug >>>> would do to me now when my retail business runs on a web-based point of >>>> fsale and accounting platform and I virtually use Chrome (or sometimes >>>> Edge) along with Excel and Outlook literally all day long. >>>> Of course I don’t claim that Windows 11 with the latest version of a >>>> Chromium-based web browser or Firefox and Jaws 2023 and for a while now >>>> Jaws 2024 in Beta is perfect, but it’s very rare that Windows, Chrome or >>>> Jaws crashes when I use our point of sale, Lightspeed Retail and I often >>>> go the entire week without having to reboot my computer. On Saturday >>>> evenings we usually turn all the computers at my store off since we are >>>> closed Sundays, but once they get turned on Monday morning they stay on >>>> until Saturday evening. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Sieghard >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >>>> janet gross >>>> Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2023 4:27 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: We Deserve Better from Apple Why I Can No Longer Recommend a Mac >>>> to Fellow Blind Computer Users. >>>> >>>> Hello Everyone, >>>> Here is an interesting article I just thought some of you might like to >>>> read. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.applevis.com/blog/we-deserve-better-apple-why-i-can-no-longer-recommend-mac-fellow-blind-computer-users >>>> We Deserve Better from Apple: Why I Can No Longer Recommend a Mac to >>>> Fellow Blind Computer Users >>>> As many of you will know from personal experience, there is a longstanding >>>> issue with VoiceOver on Mac where Safari will frequently become >>>> unresponsive with VoiceOver repeatedly announcing the message “Safari not >>>> responding.” When this issue occurs, the user's Mac may become unusable >>>> for up to several minutes at a time. Sometimes it can be resolved by >>>> switching away from Safari. Sometimes restarting VoiceOver can resolve the >>>> issue. However, far too often, the user is unable to switch away from >>>> Safari or turn VoiceOver off, instead having to simply wait for their Mac >>>> to become responsive again. >>>> This “Safari not responding” behaviour when using VoiceOver dramatically >>>> impacts productivity and overall usability of Macs for blind and low >>>> vision users. Furthermore, it appears that the issue extends beyond just >>>> Safari - many other common applications that utilise Apple's WebKit >>>> browser engine can also be affected by the “not responding” problem. >>>> It is also important to point out this issue occurs regardless of the >>>> specification level of the Mac - it has been widely experienced on the >>>> latest Apple silicon-equipped Macs with 16GB or more of RAM, so even >>>> owners of top-tier new Mac hardware still face this crippling VoiceOver >>>> bug. >>>> This critical problem has persisted for years across multiple MacOS >>>> versions without a permanent fix from Apple. Given the longevity and level >>>> of disruption caused by this bug across Safari and other applications, I >>>> can unfortunately no longer in good faith recommend Macs to anyone who >>>> relies on using VoiceOver. The impact of this bug when performing routine, >>>> and often critical, tasks in Safari and other applications simply makes >>>> macOS an unreliable and frustrating platform. >>>> Macs have traditionally been popular within the blind community, and they >>>> offer some great accessibility features. However, frankly, Apple should be >>>> utterly ashamed that they have let this issue persist for so long without >>>> a permanent fix. It's a failing that raises serious questions about the >>>> company's frequently stated commitment to accessibility. There can be no >>>> doubt that if sighted users were to experience something similar, that it >>>> would receive significant media coverage and that Apple's response would >>>> be fast. >>>> I believe we need to escalate out urging of Apple to prioritise and >>>> permanently solve the “Safari not responding” bug that has plagued >>>> VoiceOver users for far too long. To this end, I encourage those of you >>>> who use VoiceOver on Mac to directly contact Apple's accessibility team at >>>> [email protected] to share your own personal experiences with and >>>> frustrations about the “Safari not responding” issue. It is important we >>>> continue putting direct, polite pressure on Apple to prioritise resolving >>>> this problem. Please be constructive in expressing your concerns. Consider >>>> also copying Apple CEO Tim Cook on your email by using his publicly shared >>>> email address [email protected] to ensure he sees the direct impact this >>>> ongoing bug is having on Apple's blind and low vision customers. >>>> I want to emphasise that the “Safari not responding” bug is far from the >>>> only issue effecting VoiceOver users on Mac. As our recent post on >>>> problems in macOS Sonoma and the replies outline, there are numerous other >>>> VoiceOver frustrations and failures impacting users. However, it has >>>> become a yardstick by which Apple's overall performance on and commitment >>>> to accessibility is being judged. It is a yardstick against which Apple >>>> has failed for some considerable time. >>>> I know many of you share my frustration. I welcome your perspectives and >>>> discussion in the comments. Collectively, we need to apply consumer >>>> pressure by being vocal about this issue and not purchasing new Macs until >>>> the “Safari not responding” issue is fixed once and for all. Apple simply >>>> must do better and restore our trust that Macs provide a stable and fully >>>> accessible experience for its blind and low vision customers. >>>> >>>> David Goldfield >>>> Assistive Technology Specialist >>>> >>>> >>>> Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news and updates >>>> regarding the blindness assistive technology space >>>> Email: [email protected] >>>> >>>> WWW.DavidGoldfield.com >>>> _._,_._,_ >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>> list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/BL3P221MB0273E6C79CC1FB1F0F930FD8FCCFA%40BL3P221MB0273.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM. >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>> list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/SJ0PR12MB56618526B06F25574FA91A6BC7CFA%40SJ0PR12MB5661.namprd12.prod.outlook.com. >>> >>> -- >>> Signature: >>> For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to >>> correct them for the betterment of all is no vice; >>> For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to >>> cling to its past achievements is no virtue! >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/369418db-0d43-aad0-83f2-93e4861b0fe1%40roadrunner.com. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/614C5FA0-5083-482D-9C5F-EFB0F6B2C95F%40charter.net. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/6C009F8A-ABD0-42F2-9BCD-5F4907AAEBEB%40gmail.com. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/BL3PR07MB8913E34A61C6DDBC9EA8344FE3D7A%40BL3PR07MB8913.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/00da01da00a0%24775e0a30%24661a1e90%24%40gmail.com.
