Hey Arnold, taking away the ability to add to the library is a fundamental change to the app, removing functionality I paid for. The app will not remain the same.
Grant Hardy On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 12:20 PM Arnold Schmidt <[email protected]> wrote: > I interpreted what they said to mean that everything about the app prior > to subscription would continue to work. The only change would be that one > no longer could add new content for it to read, and none of the new > features would be added. > > Arnold Schmidt > > Sent from Arnold's iPhone S E 3 > > On Apr 1, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Grant Hardy <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hey Christopher, no, I absolutely appreciate your opinion, please don't > feel like you shouldn't have commented. I also understand that the > economics of creating and maintaining a functional, niche app like this are > very difficult. However, the only thing I have an issue with is willfully > introducing code that will disable people's previous purchases. I don't > think that's appropriate because it sets a precedent where any purchase > you've made from the App Store could not just get out of date, but actually > be revoked. That wouldn't be healthy for the community. I don't have an > issue with anything else they're doing, only this one specific behaviour. > > To give an over the top example, screen readers have introduced > subscription plans for users who want them. Now imagine if your screen > reader developer wrote to you one day advising that they were going to be > disabling the license you purchased, and you would then have to start from > scratch by renting it again. That's essentially what's happened here, > because my purchases (VDR, several voices, Voice Dream Scanner) are not > going to be available to me anymore. > > Grant Hardy > > > On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 4:53 AM Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> You’re right, if they just let the existing app die on the vine, and they >> put out a new app, then it wouldn’t be much of a burden to them. I was >> assuming they’d still just have one app that would start including the new >> functionality for the subscribers but leave the existing functionality for >> the current users. This would require branches in the code, ongoing >> maintenance for those with the existing functionality and regression >> testing to make sure existing functionality didn’t break. >> >> >> >> Again, you’re right. They couldn’t pull the app from the store and erase >> it from everyone phone, but if they just pivoted away from the app >> altogether because supporting it as is isn’t sustainable then what >> functionality would be impacted and how long would it be before it stopped >> functioning altogether? My point was that enforcing the guidelines won’t >> make a business model sustainable and keep a company afloat. >> >> >> >> Sounds to me like Winston had a great idea for an app, couldn’t keep >> putting food on the table the way things were, sold it to another company >> who’s also trying to make it work, and is now fumbling it’s way to get to a >> position where they can support a great app and make some money off of it >> as well. I just don’t see bad guys here, but rather developers trying to >> adjust to a changing market. >> >> >> >> Sorry, I should have just left this alone. Like I said, I think y’all >> have a point about these guidelines, and I think you should definitely >> raise it with the developers and Apple. ,I know I may keep using the app if >> this all works out. If not, I’ve already gotten my money’s worth from Voice >> Dream, and I’ve already started using alternatives. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷ >> >> Chaltain at Outlook, USA >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf >> Of *Grant Hardy >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 31, 2024 10:12 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >> >> >> >> Hey Christopher, I’m a little bit confused by what you are saying. If >> Voice Dream Reader’s developer grandfathered in existing users, didn’t >> provide us with any updates, but also didn’t disable our previously >> purchased functionality, and just released a new app with the subscription, >> what do you mean when you say that wouldn’t be free for them? There >> wouldn’t be any additional development, testing or technical support needed >> for the previously purchased app, so I can’t imagine what costs they would >> incur. Or do you mean the opportunity cost, as in, the lack of revenue from >> users who previously bought perpetual licenses and are now being asked to >> re-purchase, rent, our licenses again? As for pulling the app from everyone >> if the App Store team told them they can’t change the terms for previous >> customers, I’m not really sure how that would benefit them or anybody else, >> it sounds like a zero-sum solution where everybody loses. I don’t know >> exactly how that works either if developers wish to erase something from >> everyone’s purchase history but it’s extremely uncommon. I have many >> discontinued apps that I can still redownload. I think one thing this has >> taught me is the benefits of keeping the app installation files locally on >> your computer like we used to in the good ‘ol days. You can use iMazing on >> Mac to download these, not sure about Windows but possibly an older version >> of iTunes. I feel like there’s some vulnerability in counting on being able >> to download the latest versions of apps from the App Store’s purchase >> history given this type of situation. >> >> >> >> >> Grant Hardy >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 4:46 PM Christopher Chaltain < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> I didn’t listen to Jonathan Mosen’s interview, but if this is really an >> issue of a sustainable business model then Apple’s guidelines can’t keep a >> developer from just pulling the app altogether. I don’t know what their >> user community looks like, so I don’t know if this is an issue for them or >> not. It does seem to be though that supporting current customers with >> current functionality, as well as future customers with new functionality, >> isn’t going to be free. There will be development, test and maintenance >> costs. >> >> >> >> I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t contact Apple and pursue this, in fact I >> think that’s exactly what people should do. I’ll be interested to see what >> comes of it. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷ >> >> Chaltain at Outlook, USA >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf >> Of *Grant Hardy >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 31, 2024 3:47 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >> >> >> >> Hi Arnold, >> >> >> >> None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple >> could do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so >> functionality isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review >> team rejects many new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not >> a big deal. Devs just implement the required changes and then they're good >> to go. Alternatively, if the code is already live with the update released >> last week, Apple could pull the app from the store until they fix it, >> especially since the change was undocumented until you installed the update. >> >> >> >> However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that >> they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my >> reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I >> think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review >> team doesn't catch everything. >> >> >> >> Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines >> incorrectly. >> >> Grant Hardy >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides >> that their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that >> won't hurt everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. >> They could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take >> years to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would >> prevent VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the >> developers could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop >> supporting the thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to >> court over. If any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up >> worse off than if Apple just let it go. >> >> >> >> Arnold Schmidt >> >> >> >> Sent from Arnold's iPhone S E 3 >> >> >> On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Arnold, >> >> >> >> As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a >> subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers >> could release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were >> compelling enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get >> access to them. >> >> >> >> However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't >> charge for features already bought with different terms. In my case, those >> features include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various >> voices, and scanning documents. >> >> >> >> As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from >> Jonathan, they could also release a completely new app, charge for it >> monthly, not update the previous app anymore, and we could then use the >> previous app on the terms we agreed upon. The issue is releasing an update >> that disables features. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Grant Hardy >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 PM Grant Hardy <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Cara, >> >> >> >> I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than >> I did. >> >> >> >> Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given >> developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges >> is that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have >> huge benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like >> "please don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are >> more protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't >> take away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). >> What I'm throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the >> exclusive place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the >> guidelines so I can get the functionality and protections the App Store is >> designed to offer. And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe >> developers aren’t following what they agreed upon. >> >> >> >> It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally >> disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side >> haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and >> get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it. >> >> >> >> I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money >> is tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's >> possible that a high school or university student is still in the system >> with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be >> disabled around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice. >> I can personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO >> user and I only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this >> could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But >> more to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the >> protections we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I >> switched to Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd bought outright, and even >> if I canceled it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having >> all my previous purchases taken away as of a certain date. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Grant Hardy >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Richard and All, >> >> >> >> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any >> opinions here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no >> horse in this race. :) >> >> >> >> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is >> saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks >> to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased >> functionality is being removed. >> >> >> >> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not >> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to >> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation. >> >> >> >> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want >> and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for. >> >> >> >> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more >> expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around >> a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need >> to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be >> seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of >> course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. >> >> >> >> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period >> than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after >> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of >> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What >> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What >> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter? >> >> >> >> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to >> address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on >> this. >> >> >> >> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this >> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the >> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work! >> >> >> >> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :) >> >> >> >> Cara >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, >> you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, >> you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy >> with purchasing a game. >> >> >> >> Richard, USA >> >> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God >> stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to >> get it.” >> >> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth >> >> >> >> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hey Richard, >> >> >> >> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are >> tricky. >> >> >> >> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states: >> >> >> >> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business >> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users >> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already >> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you >> introduce a subscription model for new customers. >> >> >> >> >> >> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a >> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the >> functionality they previously paid for. >> >> >> >> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any >> purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be >> disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the >> quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur. >> >> >> >> I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or >> charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app >> that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. >> Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is >> in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above. >> >> >> >> If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app >> purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not >> talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working >> anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that >> specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased >> license. >> >> >> >> just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new >> owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous >> purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on >> transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do >> about my text content yet. >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> >> Grant Hardy >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan >> interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group. >> >> It is very much worth listening to. It is fairly long, but it is very >> clear that they care very much about their customers and are doing their >> best to provide a quality product and adding new features. >> >> >> >> The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and >> double tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled >> Pricing Changes for One-Time Purchasers. >> >> As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 >> day trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, >> but if you double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can >> choose to subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser. >> I don’t know what you get if you are a new subscriber. >> >> >> >> But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is >> within the app store. >> >> The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that >> seems to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the >> Applause Group gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the >> app store. >> >> I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app >> through the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut. I think 20 or 30 >> percent and the developer gets the rest. >> >> >> >> IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store. >> >> >> >> They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future. >> >> >> >> HTH, >> >> >> >> Richard, USA >> >> "It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less >> than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight >> fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." >> -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009) >> >> >> >> My web site: https://www.turner42.com >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf >> Of *Dennis Long >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >> >> >> >> You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents >> and get access today or wait 3 days. I strongly encourage you to listen to >> it. I do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback. >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf >> Of *Michael Irons >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >> >> >> >> Hello everybody I believe that we just have to except what do people with >> voice dream reader want to do. That developers are totally free to increase >> prices or make free apps, paid apps or whatever they feel they want to do >> need to do or have to do to make money. Just remember that Free doesn’t >> make any money for anybody and, he doesn’t buy anyone’s lunch. I think we’d >> all be better served if we could look for something that does the same >> things as voice dream reader and it’s either Free or at least at low cost. >> It just sounds like the people that work with voice dream reader are going >> to do whatever they’re going to do and they’re not willing to, or able to >> change their minds. Just trying to find an alternative would be a lot more >> productive for everybody than just talking about not being able to use >> voice dream reader. I’m just saying all this whatever it’s worth. For all I >> know it may not be worth anything not even a plug penny or a plug nickel. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> On Mar 29, 2024, at 6:46 PM, Sieghard Weitzel <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to >> increase the price for their app or to charge something for a previously >> free app or to switch to a subscription model then that is entirely their >> decision. >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf >> Of *Grant Hardy >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >> >> >> >> Hey guys, >> >> >> >> If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for >> the app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please >> consider reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if >> it violates any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would: >> selling lifetime licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them. >> The nature of how the update was released also didn't give users any >> warning or opt-out, as the new deadline wasn't mentioned in the release >> notes. I think Apple uses these for internal purposes, and if enough people >> file reports then they may act upon it. >> >> >> >> I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the >> upcoming disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update was >> handled. >> >> >> >> I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription >> route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a >> tough world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out an >> update that disables previously purchased licenses from continuing to work >> at all and not mentioning that this would happen in the release notes. I >> would imagine this will impact many schools and other educational >> institutions as well who will rely on having access to this app at least >> for the remainder of the school year. >> >> Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive >> feedback. >> >> >> >> Grant Hardy >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> [email protected]. 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Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-M-V_HgXmaVM2dV0_Q1qGF6tenZuszn0TPUgKjm22KfQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-M-V_HgXmaVM2dV0_Q1qGF6tenZuszn0TPUgKjm22KfQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/0DDCB8E8-6CDA-4214-BE19-5600924E9210%40gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/0DDCB8E8-6CDA-4214-BE19-5600924E9210%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-eN-F3r6%3DNcEEaLZA6yqYDOeF1Kp1iZTgri4BHszkGuQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-eN-F3r6%3DNcEEaLZA6yqYDOeF1Kp1iZTgri4BHszkGuQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/PH0PR14MB4296B9B986B4E0E46BF8430EC8382%40PH0PR14MB4296.namprd14.prod.outlook.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/PH0PR14MB4296B9B986B4E0E46BF8430EC8382%40PH0PR14MB4296.namprd14.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-r3gfWuXNDxbe05S9D5CgutQijKQZ3sGywdBbWoCiJQw%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-r3gfWuXNDxbe05S9D5CgutQijKQZ3sGywdBbWoCiJQw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/PH0PR14MB42969C3EBBBDA7487A0C5576C83F2%40PH0PR14MB4296.namprd14.prod.outlook.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/PH0PR14MB42969C3EBBBDA7487A0C5576C83F2%40PH0PR14MB4296.namprd14.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-U%2BT7viuvLbpk7rD6n6A3TJBnL2kZDYNoWAa%3DM_inbtg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-U%2BT7viuvLbpk7rD6n6A3TJBnL2kZDYNoWAa%3DM_inbtg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/80D3991E-5744-4B7C-846E-6E1AF3BC51BF%40gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/80D3991E-5744-4B7C-846E-6E1AF3BC51BF%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q9j1%2B782BwBBaJfh3os9B4J-Q0XaBFSXR1edwGi6wppwA%40mail.gmail.com.
