We also can write a comment in the AppStore Lyne
> Le 31 mars 2024 à 17:04, Cara Quinn <[email protected]> a écrit : > > Grant, I would honestly write [email protected], if nothing else, to > ask for an appropriate address to direct this question to. > > While this is absolutely not what I would prefer, this issue kind of lives on > the fringes, because this isn’t just an ordinary situation where a customer > just isn’t happy with an app. It’s a bigger issue for this community, but > it’s also not strictly an issue of accessibility either. So it’s not my > favorite suggestion. I just can’t think of a better address to write to, > where a question like this will actually be seen and responded to. > > Just my thoughts, and perhaps someone else may know of a much better way of > pursuing an answer. > > Cheers! > > Cara > > > >> On Mar 31, 2024, at 1:49 PM, Grant Hardy <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Cara, >> >> I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I >> did. >> >> Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given >> developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges is >> that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have huge >> benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like "please >> don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are more >> protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't take >> away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). What I'm >> throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the exclusive >> place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the guidelines so >> I can get the functionality and protections the App Store is designed to >> offer. And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe developers >> aren’t following what they agreed upon. >> >> It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally >> disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side >> haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and >> get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it. >> >> I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money is >> tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's >> possible that a high school or university student is still in the system >> with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be >> disabled around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice. >> I can personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO >> user and I only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this >> could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But more >> to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the protections >> we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I switched to >> Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd bought outright, and even if I canceled >> it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having all my previous >> purchases taken away as of a certain date. >> >> >> >> Grant Hardy >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi Richard and All, >>> >>> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions >>> here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in >>> this race. :) >>> >>> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is saying. >>> One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks to add >>> to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased functionality >>> is being removed. >>> >>> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not >>> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to >>> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation. >>> >>> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want >>> and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for. >>> >>> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more >>> expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around >>> a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need >>> to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be >>> seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of >>> course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. >>> >>> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period >>> than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after >>> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of >>> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What >>> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What >>> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter? >>> >>> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to >>> address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on >>> this. >>> >>> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this >>> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the >>> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work! >>> >>> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :) >>> >>> Cara >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you >>>> will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you >>>> will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy >>>> with purchasing a game. >>>> >>>> Richard, USA >>>> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God >>>> stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell >>>> to get it.” >>>> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth >>>> >>>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hey Richard, >>>>> >>>>> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are >>>>> tricky. >>>>> >>>>> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states: >>>>> >>>>> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business >>>>> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users >>>>> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already >>>>> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you >>>>> introduce a subscription model for new customers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a >>>>> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept >>>>> the functionality they previously paid for. >>>>> >>>>> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any >>>>> purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be >>>>> disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the >>>>> quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur. >>>>> >>>>> I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or >>>>> charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app >>>>> that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. >>>>> Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this >>>>> is in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above. >>>>> >>>>> If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app >>>>> purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not >>>>> talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working >>>>> anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that >>>>> specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased >>>>> license. >>>>> >>>>> just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new >>>>> owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous >>>>> purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on >>>>> transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do >>>>> about my text content yet. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Grant Hardy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan >>>>>> interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is very much worth listening to. It is fairly long, but it is very >>>>>> clear that they care very much about their customers and are doing their >>>>>> best to provide a quality product and adding new features. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and >>>>>> double tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post >>>>>> titled Pricing Changes for One-Time Purchasers. >>>>>> >>>>>> As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 >>>>>> day trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, >>>>>> but if you double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you >>>>>> can choose to subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time >>>>>> purchaser. I don’t know what you get if you are a new subscriber. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is >>>>>> within the app store. >>>>>> >>>>>> The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that >>>>>> seems to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the >>>>>> Applause Group gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through >>>>>> the app store. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app >>>>>> through the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut. I think 20 or 30 >>>>>> percent and the developer gets the rest. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HTH, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Richard, USA >>>>>> >>>>>> "It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less >>>>>> than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight >>>>>> fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your >>>>>> life." -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description >>>>>> (1932-2009) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >>>>>> Dennis Long >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents >>>>>> and get access today or wait 3 days. I strongly encourage you to listen >>>>>> to it. I do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >>>>>> Michael Irons >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello everybody I believe that we just have to except what do people >>>>>> with voice dream reader want to do. That developers are totally free to >>>>>> increase prices or make free apps, paid apps or whatever they feel they >>>>>> want to do need to do or have to do to make money. Just remember that >>>>>> Free doesn’t make any money for anybody and, he doesn’t buy anyone’s >>>>>> lunch. I think we’d all be better served if we could look for something >>>>>> that does the same things as voice dream reader and it’s either Free or >>>>>> at least at low cost. It just sounds like the people that work with >>>>>> voice dream reader are going to do whatever they’re going to do and >>>>>> they’re not willing to, or able to change their minds. Just trying to >>>>>> find an alternative would be a lot more productive for everybody than >>>>>> just talking about not being able to use voice dream reader. I’m just >>>>>> saying all this whatever it’s worth. For all I know it may not be worth >>>>>> anything not even a plug penny or a plug nickel. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 29, 2024, at 6:46 PM, Sieghard Weitzel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to >>>>>> increase the price for their app or to charge something for a previously >>>>>> free app or to switch to a subscription model then that is entirely >>>>>> their decision. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >>>>>> Grant Hardy >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey guys, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for >>>>>> the app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". >>>>>> Please consider reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not >>>>>> sure if it violates any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it >>>>>> would: selling lifetime licenses with agreed upon terms and then >>>>>> disabling them. The nature of how the update was released also didn't >>>>>> give users any warning or opt-out, as the new deadline wasn't mentioned >>>>>> in the release notes. I think Apple uses these for internal purposes, >>>>>> and if enough people file reports then they may act upon it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the >>>>>> upcoming disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update >>>>>> was handled. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the >>>>>> subscription route, charging for new features and updates, or raising >>>>>> prices. It's a tough world out there. But I do have serious concerns >>>>>> about pushing out an update that disables previously purchased licenses >>>>>> from continuing to work at all and not mentioning that this would happen >>>>>> in the release notes. I would imagine this will impact many schools and >>>>>> other educational institutions as well who will rely on having access to >>>>>> this app at least for the remainder of the school year. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive >>>>>> feedback. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Grant Hardy >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q_6xx%3DYdcxPUqDoWEqUUP2qEPpZ3UhD7HB8_2EcynoiTQ%40mail.gmail.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/PH7PR12MB56567B4BCF31E7BBB2781663C73A2%40PH7PR12MB5656.namprd12.prod.outlook.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/DC839E34-2F6D-4D08-8874-866E153B9395%40gmail.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/02ea01da82d2%24ae6d6980%240b483c80%24%40gmail.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/00de01da8306%24f1d91870%24d58b4950%24%40comcast.net. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q96NAJz3K%2BR4djz9M%3DCwrjvbfdciWRi1pyL1e2E-9tYHA%40mail.gmail.com. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>> list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/333169E2-EB59-4DBF-BE50-16B61CCB1CDC%40comcast.net. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/8F97A1BD-5240-4B59-AE8B-3A1B10CC2F6B%40gmail.com. >> >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-Vr1_cUStVBA%2Bg3_zeYGvROM6T5iaGKtM4J%3DpPDBfmOw%40mail.gmail.com. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/3479622F-4B6C-46D8-B3FD-20493ED7276D%40gmail.com. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/AE2EDFC1-F652-4576-8618-1EC2CAC5D7A4%40gmail.com.
