Grant, I would honestly write acccessibil...@apple.com <mailto:acccessibil...@apple.com>, if nothing else, to ask for an appropriate address to direct this question to.
While this is absolutely not what I would prefer, this issue kind of lives on the fringes, because this isn’t just an ordinary situation where a customer just isn’t happy with an app. It’s a bigger issue for this community, but it’s also not strictly an issue of accessibility either. So it’s not my favorite suggestion. I just can’t think of a better address to write to, where a question like this will actually be seen and responded to. Just my thoughts, and perhaps someone else may know of a much better way of pursuing an answer. Cheers! Cara > On Mar 31, 2024, at 1:49 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Cara, > > I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I > did. > > Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given > developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges is > that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have huge > benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like "please > don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are more > protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't take > away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). What I'm > throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the exclusive > place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the guidelines so I > can get the functionality and protections the App Store is designed to offer. > And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe developers aren’t > following what they agreed upon. > > It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally > disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side > haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and > get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it. > > I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money is > tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's > possible that a high school or university student is still in the system with > a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be disabled > around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice. I can > personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO user and I > only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this could impact the > very demographics who are best served by this app. But more to the point, I'm > questioning whether we truly are getting the protections we thought we were > getting by buying from the App Store. When I switched to Apple Music I kept > all the songs I'd bought outright, and even if I canceled it I would still > keep those songs. This would be like having all my previous purchases taken > away as of a certain date. > > > > Grant Hardy > > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn <modelc...@gmail.com > <mailto:modelc...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> Hi Richard and All, >> >> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions >> here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in >> this race. :) >> >> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is saying. >> One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks to add to >> their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased functionality is >> being removed. >> >> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not >> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to >> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation. >> >> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want and >> still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for. >> >> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more expensive >> lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around a couple >> of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need to move to >> the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be seen as a form >> of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of course, and please, >> by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. >> >> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period than >> my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after three >> months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of >> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What >> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What >> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter? >> >> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to >> address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on >> this. >> >> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this >> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the >> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work! >> >> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :) >> >> Cara >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner <richardr_tur...@comcast.net >>> <mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net>> wrote: >>> >>> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you >>> will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you >>> will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with >>> purchasing a game. >>> >>> Richard, USA >>> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores >>> it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get >>> it.” >>> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth >>> >>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:grantha...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hey Richard, >>>> >>>> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are >>>> tricky. >>>> >>>> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states: >>>> >>>> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business >>>> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users >>>> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already >>>> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you >>>> introduce a subscription model for new customers. >>>> >>>> >>>> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a >>>> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the >>>> functionality they previously paid for. >>>> >>>> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any >>>> purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be >>>> disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the >>>> quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur. >>>> >>>> I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or >>>> charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app >>>> that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. >>>> Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is >>>> in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above. >>>> >>>> If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app >>>> purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not >>>> talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working >>>> anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that >>>> specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased >>>> license. >>>> >>>> just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new >>>> owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous >>>> purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on >>>> transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do >>>> about my text content yet. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> Grant Hardy >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner >>>> <richardr_tur...@comcast.net <mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net>> wrote: >>>>> I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan >>>>> interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group. >>>>> >>>>> It is very much worth listening to. It is fairly long, but it is very >>>>> clear that they care very much about their customers and are doing their >>>>> best to provide a quality product and adding new features. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and >>>>> double tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post >>>>> titled Pricing Changes for One-Time Purchasers. >>>>> >>>>> As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 >>>>> day trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, >>>>> but if you double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you >>>>> can choose to subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time >>>>> purchaser. I don’t know what you get if you are a new subscriber. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is >>>>> within the app store. >>>>> >>>>> The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that >>>>> seems to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the >>>>> Applause Group gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through >>>>> the app store. >>>>> >>>>> I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app >>>>> through the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut. I think 20 or 30 >>>>> percent and the developer gets the rest. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> HTH, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Richard, USA >>>>> >>>>> "It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less >>>>> than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight >>>>> fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your >>>>> life." -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description >>>>> (1932-2009) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com <https://www.turner42.com/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>>> <viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of >>>>> Dennis Long >>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AM >>>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>>> Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents >>>>> and get access today or wait 3 days. I strongly encourage you to listen >>>>> to it. I do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>>> <viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of >>>>> Michael Irons >>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM >>>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>>> Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello everybody I believe that we just have to except what do people with >>>>> voice dream reader want to do. That developers are totally free to >>>>> increase prices or make free apps, paid apps or whatever they feel they >>>>> want to do need to do or have to do to make money. Just remember that >>>>> Free doesn’t make any money for anybody and, he doesn’t buy anyone’s >>>>> lunch. I think we’d all be better served if we could look for something >>>>> that does the same things as voice dream reader and it’s either Free or >>>>> at least at low cost. It just sounds like the people that work with voice >>>>> dream reader are going to do whatever they’re going to do and they’re not >>>>> willing to, or able to change their minds. Just trying to find an >>>>> alternative would be a lot more productive for everybody than just >>>>> talking about not being able to use voice dream reader. I’m just saying >>>>> all this whatever it’s worth. For all I know it may not be worth anything >>>>> not even a plug penny or a plug nickel. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 29, 2024, at 6:46 PM, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca >>>>> <mailto:siegh...@live.ca>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to >>>>> increase the price for their app or to charge something for a previously >>>>> free app or to switch to a subscription model then that is entirely their >>>>> decision. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>>> <viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of >>>>> Grant Hardy >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM >>>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>>> Subject: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hey guys, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for >>>>> the app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". >>>>> Please consider reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not >>>>> sure if it violates any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it >>>>> would: selling lifetime licenses with agreed upon terms and then >>>>> disabling them. The nature of how the update was released also didn't >>>>> give users any warning or opt-out, as the new deadline wasn't mentioned >>>>> in the release notes. I think Apple uses these for internal purposes, and >>>>> if enough people file reports then they may act upon it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the >>>>> upcoming disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update >>>>> was handled. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription >>>>> route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a >>>>> tough world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out >>>>> an update that disables previously purchased licenses from continuing to >>>>> work at all and not mentioning that this would happen in the release >>>>> notes. I would imagine this will impact many schools and other >>>>> educational institutions as well who will rely on having access to this >>>>> app at least for the remainder of the school year. >>>>> >>>>> Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive >>>>> feedback. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Grant Hardy >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>. 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Mark can be reached at: >>>>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>. 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Mark can be reached at: >>>>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - >>>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/DC839E34-2F6D-4D08-8874-866E153B9395%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/DC839E34-2F6D-4D08-8874-866E153B9395%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - >>>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/02ea01da82d2%24ae6d6980%240b483c80%24%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/02ea01da82d2%24ae6d6980%240b483c80%24%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - >>>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/00de01da8306%24f1d91870%24d58b4950%24%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/00de01da8306%24f1d91870%24d58b4950%24%40comcast.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>> list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - >>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q96NAJz3K%2BR4djz9M%3DCwrjvbfdciWRi1pyL1e2E-9tYHA%40mail.gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q96NAJz3K%2BR4djz9M%3DCwrjvbfdciWRi1pyL1e2E-9tYHA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you >>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/333169E2-EB59-4DBF-BE50-16B61CCB1CDC%40comcast.net >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/333169E2-EB59-4DBF-BE50-16B61CCB1CDC%40comcast.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you >> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/8F97A1BD-5240-4B59-AE8B-3A1B10CC2F6B%40gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/8F97A1BD-5240-4B59-AE8B-3A1B10CC2F6B%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-Vr1_cUStVBA%2Bg3_zeYGvROM6T5iaGKtM4J%3DpPDBfmOw%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q-Vr1_cUStVBA%2Bg3_zeYGvROM6T5iaGKtM4J%3DpPDBfmOw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/3479622F-4B6C-46D8-B3FD-20493ED7276D%40gmail.com.
