Another thing that has not been taken into account here, is that if you don't know where to start, how can you find what you're looking for. Take the mail archive for example, if you're not sure what date the post you're looking for was posted, what year what month and under what subject, then the mail archive can be a frustrating nightmare especially i assume for newbies who aren't familiar with searches. Me myself, i hate the archives just for this reason. Plus arrogant answers and ironic posts tend to scare off people with questions, it certainly scared me off a list about Linux which they claimed was a helpful community, but all to often i saw questions answered with RTFM without even any pointers to where to read and i'm a quite experienced internet user but i accept that many aren't. So maybe it's just about time, if this list is gonna turn out as friendly as those lists in the example i gave, to pack ones things and leave. /Krister 12 apr 2013 kl. 21:30 skrev Ron Pelletier <[email protected]>:
> Hi Ricardo, > > You fail to realize that not everyone is able to function at your level. If > someone has recently been equipped with a device and wants to know the price > of another device that could be better for them or to figure if they can > afford both and don't know yet how to get that information, that's a > legitimate question. If someone is not comfortable activating a button > without knowing what will happen, that's a legitimate question also. If > someone even needs someone else to install apps for them to use because they > can't do it themselves and they want to know how much it costs, that's > legitimate also > > So, you see, every question is a legitimate question if you don't know the > answer or can't find the answer on your own. I never saw this list as a > place where we only should work with people who have a certain level of > abilities. I am just having a lot of trouble getting some people to > understand that there is no such thing as a common denominator in people's > ability to function. > > I am not ignoring the validity of the original post, I am just saying as > part of my opinion that the original post had no validity to it at all. > > Respectfully > > Ron & Danvers > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of Ricardo Walker > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:54 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: What do they do??? > > Hello, > > I agree with everything you said but, I think you are ignoring the validity > of the original posters statement. For example. I've seen people ask the > "how much is an iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, etc, dozens of times on this list > in the last 3 years. Now, to me, I think this is a silly question to ask on > a list as big as this. By the time you get a reply, and find the reply to > that question, the person could have gone to the Apple site and just looked > for themselves. Or, when a person talks about a new app they have come > across, and people ask, "how much is it? I'm like, well, why not check for > your self? I mean, if your going to buy it, you would actually need to > click on the button that displays the price, no? I've even seen people post > something like, "Hi list, I've downloaded this app, and there are 2 > unlabeled buttons. What do they do? Now, I'm far from the most adventuress > person in the world but, wouldn't it be much easier to double tap on the > buttons yourself? Lets think about it. Some people would wait hours, if > not days, for someone to report back on what those 2 buttons do before > venturing to press them. I could totally understand why a person might be > annoyed by such a post. I tend to just delete these myself. I have a > feeling Fred might have been talking about questions more like this than, > questions that deal with the general operation of an IOS device or, the use > of an application. > > Ricardo Walker > [email protected] > Twitter:@apple2thecore > www.appletothecore.info > > On Apr 12, 2013, at 10:06 AM, Ron Pelletier <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi Eddie, >> >> Having taught accessible technology for 21 years to people of all >> degrees of vision and many combinations of disabilities, I totally >> agree with your technique. When a client doesn't understand the first >> or second time, there is no point repeating the same thing over and >> over. Its up to us to change our approach to the problem. It is up >> to us to find a different way of working with each individual person >> and each individual problem. So, thinking in any way that asking >> questions is, laziness or lack of interest is totally wrong. >> >> As for the person who originated this topic claiming that asking >> questions creates too much traffic, well, I wish I had counted how >> much traffic this topic created on the list. >> >> So, let's deal with the questions which are the purpose of this list >> and get on with it. >> >> Ron & Danvers >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Eddie Salcido >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 8:11 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: What do they do??? >> >> Hi Carrie and list. >> My girlfriend is someone who definitely doesn't feel confident with I >> things and would be asking what to do on a consistent basis, so here's my > thought. >> In a real life teaching situation, I would explain a procedure once or >> twice, then if asked a third time, I would make the person critically >> think by asking a question of my own such as, "What do you think the >> next step might be?" I do this type of question teaching regularly >> with blind kids who I teach music to. >> Eddie >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Carrie Snodgrass >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:53 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: What do they do??? >> >> Patti, you're a kind soul. I feel like I have some of that patience >> with others, but not to the extent that you do. I'm all for helping >> others, as long as they try to learn as we go. However, there is a >> point when one has to do for themselves. I live a very full life, >> surrounded by sighted people, and there's been more than one occasion >> in which I'm complaining about all the "blind bums," and my friends >> and family have had to gently explained to me that just because I have >> a lot of self-confidence doesn't mean that everyone else does and just >> because blind people don't/can't always learn/do for themselves >> doesn't make them lazy. So, long story short, I respect Patti's view, but > probably feel more as Fred does. >> Having said that though, there will be A LOT less traffic and >> confusion if everyone would just get along. Everyone's free to ask >> questions, just as everyone is free to answer them or not. We're all >> on this list to gain support and knowledge from other IOS users. If a >> particular topic doesn't interest you, DELETE is the "key." It takes >> way less time to hit Delete a few times than to draft a complaint >> about a topic for which you have no concern in the first place. >> Carrie >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Patti Johnson >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:05 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: What do they do??? >> >> I do have friends who hardly will ever try to figure things out on >> their own because they don't have the confidence in themselves, they >> are afraid of doing something wrong. >> I am not saying there is right or wrong in any of this; I just think >> those that ask should be respected and answered even if we ourselves >> wish they would do their own work. >> I have done a lot of stuff for people that I think they should be able >> to do for themselves, yet over and over again when they need help they >> come to me for it and I think to myself, they need to learn this on >> their own but if they won't because they are fearful of making a >> mistake, then I have to help them. >> Patti >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Fred Olver >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:58 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: What do they do??? >> >> Patty, if the information is readily available, why ask the list? >> Aren't we supposed to be able to do some things on our own or have we >> all become so lazy that rather than find out ourselves that we must >> bring it to the list because we can't take the time to find out for > ourselves? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patti Johnson" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:53 AM >> Subject: RE: What do they do??? >> >> >>> I was telling a friend about this who was thinking of subscribing to >>> this list; and she said if you're told to do your research all the >>> time then what's the point of the list? >>> I personally don't mind answering questions, no matter how many times >>> the question is asked. >>> Some people are new to this thing, and we don't know who is or isn't. >>> Or their level of experience. Patience needs to be exercised on any >>> email list, because we don't know where the person writing in is >>> coming from. Just my humble opinion. And actually if you don't want >>> to answer that person on list write to them privately, which would >>> take away from the high traffic. >>> Patti >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf Of Fred Olver >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:44 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: What do they do??? >>> >>> Thanks for your comments, I just happen to find it very irritating >>> that somewhat intelligent people choose not, even when they have the >>> information at their fingertips to find the information themselves >>> rather than ask on such a high-traffic list. This was as a result of >>> two messages in a row which asked the question of two different >>> app's, what does it do. >>> >>> Fred >>> ----- Original Message. In this case, there were two messages in a >>> row that asked the same question, "What does it do ----- >>> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:23 AM >>> Subject: Re: What do they do??? >>> >>> >>>> Well, I thought the whole thread was kind of annoying and >>>> condescending myself, and I didn't have the patience to read it. I >>>> doubt many of the targeted audience is going to have the patience to >>>> read such an email let alone follow the tips tucked in it. I also >>>> wonder how much time was spent writing and reading such a message as >>>> opposed to just hitting the delete key when someone asks a question >>>> you can't or don't want to answer. I find the one liners like "What >>>> does >>> this app do?" or "How much does it cost?" >>>> to be just as annoying as the next guy, but given that Raul, as the >>>> moderator, has already done a good job trying to curb such behavior, >>>> I don't think it's going to change human behavior much, and I think >>>> it's best left to Raul and the moderators. >>>> >>>> On 04/11/2013 06:40 AM, Fred Olver wrote: >>>>> Thanks, Will for bringing me a chuckle this morning. I get so tired >>>>> of folks asking what does it do when they could so easily find out >>>>> the information for themselves. >>>>> Maybe my little piece will cause them to think before posting to >>>>> the list. >>>>> Fred >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> *From:* Wil James <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:07 AM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: What do they do??? >>>>> >>>>> You forgot the other burning question. How much does it cost? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Wil's iPhone 4S >>>>> ---------- >>>>> E-mail or iMessage: [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> Twitter: wiljames >>>>> zellow: wilcjames >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 11:47 PM, "Fred Olver" <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Inquiring minds want to know, what does it do? What does it do???? >>>>>> What does it do??? The answer is simple, in fact it is so simple >>>>>> it's a wonder you didn't think of it yourself??? Unlike the >>>>>> I-devices, there is a simple yet often-overlooked task which will >>>>>> easily bring you the information you crave. >>>>>> What is it you say, I can't wait, please, please, tell me. >>>>>> Why it's as simple as typing the name of the app in to the space >>>>>> marked, very clearly "SEARCH" I repeat "SEARCH", easily found >>>>>> Where??? Ah, yet another question and yet one which answer is not >>>>>> the commonly used phrase, "Over there", why it is, are you ready >>>>>> for this, are you sure you are ready? It is after all your waiting >>>>>> to find an answer which has iluded mankind for hmmm maybe 20 >>>>>> seconds or so, of course, in the app store. See that wasn't so >>>>>> difficult, now, here are the directions. Merely double-tap on the >>>>>> "app store" Icon on your i-Device, wait for it to open and then, >>>>>> then, look down at the bottom of the page which you will come to. >>>>>> There are five buttons labeled from left to right: "Featured", >>>>>> "top Charts" "genius" "search" and last but not least "updates". >>>>>> Now, all you have to do after tapping the "search" item, a new >>>>>> screen will appear in which you will be presented with an >>>>>> on-screen keyboard, or, you can use an external keyboard, either >>>>>> Braille or standard to gain the information you so badly crave. >>>>>> Then all you need do is enter the necessary information field >>>>>> using voice, keyboard bluetooth or keyboard on the phone and tap >>>>>> "search" and voila, the information appears. This feature can be >>>>>> used to find hidden apps like tap tap see, four square, or >>>>>> perhapse you want to look up 4square. Words like radio or music >>>>>> can present you with literally hundreds of functional >>>>>> applications. Perhapse you long for apps which might be of use to >>>>>> you tomorrow, Saturday, or maybe even next week. >>>>>> Be sure to keep this document in case you forget what to do, lets >>>>>> again, refresh, >>>>>> 1. Find app store on your i-device >>>>>> 2. Double tap to open this item. >>>>>> 3. find the WORD "SEARCH" near the bottom of the screen, >>>>>> double-tap on it at which point you will be presented with an >>>>>> on-screen keyboard or you can use an external one if you wish, >>>>>> 4. Type the name of what you are looking for or something like >>>>>> rpg's or text adventures or cooking or games >>>>>> 5. Again, double-tap the "search" button by using a keyboard to >>>>>> input your information your choice and off you go. >>>>>> I hope this has been helpful, compared to making use of some of >>>>>> the apps available for the iPhone this is truly a very easy task >>>>>> to accomplish. >>>>>> If you still do not feel you understand this task, let me know and >>>>>> I will indeed be glad to put together a podcast and if enough of >>>>>> you ask me too, I'll see about putting it up on "applevis", what >>>>>> is that, you ask, well, that's for another night. but that's >>>>>> another message. >>>>>> Later folks. >>>>>> Happy searching. >>>>>> Fred Olver >>>>>> Thanks to Ester and Jonathon for all of your previous posts >>>>>> teaching all of us what we need to know, I only hope I have come >>>>>> close in presenting the necessary information for those who are >>>>>> having difficulty accomplishing this task. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> >>>>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6232 - Release Date: >>>>> 04/08/13 >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>> Google Group. >>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Christopher (CJ) >>>> chaltain at Gmail >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>> Google Group. >>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>> 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www.avg.com >>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6232 - Release Date: >>> 04/08/13 >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> 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