what short time i did medical transcribing I was told to type exactly what I
heard. Betty Emmons
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rose Combs" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 6:58 PM
Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts
Transcription even for a fast typist is time-consuming. Dialog in fact is
probably the most difficult especially if you don't know who is speaking.
Then you have the laughter, or the "I am thinking" sounds people make and
you have to decide if it detracts from the transcript if you don't put that
in. Verbatim transcription with no attempt at phrasing something so it can
be better understood is something most people are offended with but, I have
done medical transcription for 36 years and until the past two years we have
been expected to clean it up without changing the meaning. Then someone
said type verbatim, even if it is incorrect, but then there are exceptions
to that rule also according to the quality assurance folks so it is a whole
mess of stuff you have to consider.
I know when I transcribe a couple of meetings for folks and did not know who
was speaking it was frustrating, especially in one case when someone was
very unhappy and very verbal and I could not put a name to that person.
I tried transcribing a bookshare meeting off Access World about six years
ago, the recording was just over an hour and it took me 6 hours to
transcribe and it was something like 25 pages as I recall. That is from
someone who types fast.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of David Chittenden
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts
And here we have some of the problems. Advertisers are constantly seeking
visual methods to draw the eye of people away from the main content of the
page over to their advertisements. Web authors are trying to keep the
person's eyes on the page material, yet allowing the ads to help cover the
costs of the page and maybe make a profit. Designs and techniques are
constantly changing, so it is impossible for automatic systems to keep up
with the ever-changing variability.
The standard screen reader response is to somehow script specific complex
webpages (Jaws) or flag and otherwise mark-up aspects of webpages. Aria is a
system that web developers can use which has been accepted by the screen
readers. However, most web developers will probably never use it any more
than they have ever used accessibility techniques in the past. We are a tiny
minority, so most never think our accessibility needs. Though I would love
to see it be otherwise, I am a realist. We are way beneath the average
web-developer's notice, so it will most likely always be an uphill battle.
Consider it this way. How many of you who make podcasts create written
transcriptions of your podcast for the deaf? I have seen very few. You
probably never thought of the fact that you are discriminating against the
deaf exactly the same way with your podcast that sighted people are
discriminating against you with inaccessible web pages. Oh, and if your
podcast were for certain governmental information websites, you would be
required to make the podcast information accessible to everyone, including
those who are deaf. In other words, you would need to sit down and
transcribe everything that is said in the podcast, and place it alongside
the podcast so the deaf can have equal access. For me, at least, it takes
several hours to transcribe a half hour interview. I am a slow typist.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: [email protected]
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone
On 26/04/2013, at 13:04, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote:
The results of these studies on how the blind work with web sites surprise
me a bit, but I wonder how much of this goes back to how JAWS presents web
content to the JAWS user. Even so, I distinctly recall using the JAWS cursor
with web pages to explore how they're laid out and how they appear to
sighted users. I did this even more frequently when JAWS allowed for
alternate web page presentations, and I started using a screen reader like
Orca which doesn't change the lay out of the page much at all. I don't
recall how much NVDA manipulates the presentation of the web. It would be
interesting to know the results of these studies with blind people who
predominantly use Orca instead of JAWS.
I do think it'll always take the blind a bit longer to digest information
on a web page than it will for sighted users. Just as I can't take in a list
of email messages at a glance, focusing in on the unread messages based on
colors, or automatically jump to the interesting part of a spread sheet, I'm
not going to be able to follow the visual queues on a web page directing the
sighted user to the pertinent portion of the web page. Ironically, I think
screen reader technology is going to have to help fill in the gap here,
which may focus more on the type of content on a web page and less on the
visual layout.
On 04/25/2013 07:26 PM, David Chittenden wrote:
Like I said, I can reliably reproduce the problem by briefly hesitating
before performing the gesture. Otherwise, I never experience the problem,
even on webpages.
Specific to webpages, when the webpage is large and in multiple
columns, headings very easily jump when what I describe happens. This
is because the multi-columns are not linear like we blind people
perceive them. Your first heading may be near the top on the left
side of the display. Your next heading may be near the bottom of the
left side. Your third heading may be one-third the way down in the
middle of the display. Your next heading may be half way down the
middle of the display. Your next heading may be at the bottom of the
middle of the display. Your final four headings may be spaced along
the column on the right-hand side of the display. So, using a
vertical flick set to headings, with just a little hesitation before
the flick, can cause your headings to jump seemingly unpredictably,
whilst attempting to navigate the display. Consider that you hesitate
between headings whilst deciding whether to move to the next heading,
and your finger is closer to the display than you thin
k.
From various studies, we know that, based on how windows screen readers
have always presented information in a serial manner, blind people perceive
web pages as being long columns of text on the left side of the web page.
One study set a tactile button in the middle of the computer screen a
little below the centre. Using a tactile mouse, blind people, and sighted
people under blindfold, tried to locate and click on the button. The sighted
people took a fair amount of time to locate the tactile button. Over half
the blind people were unable to locate the tactile button. Whilst the
sighted people explored the web page from side to side, top to bottom, the
blind people stayed on the left edge of the display and kept searching up
and down in the left side only. This is very significant as it shows how
blind people mentally visualise and comprehend webpages.
Another study used eye-tracking equipment to assess exactly how sighted
people determine relevance of webpages, and compared this with blind people.
The vast majority of websites display link bars / tool bars down the left
side, across the top, and down the right side of the page. the main text of
the page is in the middle, surrounded by these bars. The sighted person
first looks at the two or three links in the upper left corner of the page.
They then look at the main text of the page. Only after that do they go back
and look at the other link bars. Because the screen reader goes from left to
right, top to bottom, in a serial, linear manner, and because all the link
bars start above the main text area, the blind person must go through all
the bars first. This creates the mental impression that everything is on the
left side above the text. This visualisation is subconscious, and it is what
we do automatically.
Since I've learned all of this from my research, I have been using my
iPhone to retrain my mental visualisation of webpages to make it similar to
what sighted people perceive. I no longer start at the beginning of the
webpage. I touch the display and find where the actual text starts. I also
slowly explore the page to find multiple columns of text. When I am ready to
start reading, I use a two-finger flick down to read from my current
location. This is, in fact one of the biggest reasons I want an iPad. I want
to better train myself on fully understanding the visual lay-out of webpages
so I can better and more quickly find information the way sighted people do
(considering that websites are designed for the sighted, and relatively few
will ever be designed for the blind given that we are one of the smallest
minorities of people around). Besides, it will greatly improve my research
skills.
Oh, I almost forgot, sighted people were found to assess a webpage for
relevance usually within 5 seconds. It took blind people 10 seconds to three
minutes just to find the information on familiar webpages.
Finally, title and author information for these studies is available upon
request. Unfortunately, I cannot provide the actual text as it is
copyrighted.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: [email protected]
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone
On 26/04/2013, at 11:34, "Raul A. Gallegos" <[email protected]>
wrote:
It is very odd for sure. I have never seen this problem on my 4S. I have
over 300 contacts in my phone of the same model and have never experienced
this problem. So Innoway I am glad to know that others are having this issue
even though it is annoying.
---
Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or
auto complete errors.
On Apr 25, 2013, at 5:57 PM, "Neal Ewers" <[email protected]>
wrote:
I have actually had my wife who has vision look at my contacts
because I at first thought there was something wrong with them
because the letter headings did not match up with the names of the
contacts. They looked fine to her, so I assumed it was a voiceover
problem. Nice to have more clarification on this.
Neal
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts
This has to do with the headings bug mentioned in earlier messages.
It's annoying as all get out.
You'll find it in other apps such as Safari when visiting webpages
with lots of headings. VO gets placed all over the place when trying to
swipe through.
Oddly enough though, the NFB Newsline app seems to work fine.
I wrote Apple about this the other day and I actually got a
response particular to my message and not just the standard "We
appreciate your message and will forward it to the proper department."
Or some such.
They said that they were aware of the problem and were
investigating it, but could not say more beyond that. So basically
we have to wait for a fix if at all in the next iOS release.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:31 PM
To: ViPhone List
Subject: An oddity with contacts
Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients
is experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in
the contacts list. From what I can tell the contacts are in
alphabetical order the way the client wants them to be. They are
set up to sort by last name, first name. And display by first name,
last name. This is all good. The problem is if you are flicking to
the right and you come across the letter C the next contacts which
are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to the
right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after
that start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing
weirdness there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like
a, B, H, E, F, P, H. So it is as if things are being misread.
However if I hear a letter out of turn, I touch the screen to see
what is there and the correct contact for the letter it is supposed
to be is actually displayed. This is telling me that voiceover is
actually speaking different letters in the headings for the
categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example
above the G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter
the contacts for G are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen
before and I am not sure what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client
might have been left flicking instead of right flicking, but that's not the
case.
---
Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any
dictation or auto complete errors.
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chaltain at Gmail
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