I was never advised to do that; and, frankly it is undoubtedly a good
thing. I remember typing a report from a psychiatrist whose native
language was not English who
Characterized his newest patient as being somewhat decomposed.
Don Roberts
On 4/25/2013 9:50 PM, Simon Wong wrote:
Hi you know how I was asking of how to remove a address, well I found a more
info and remove from recents, I accidentally took out something that I wanted
to keep but I can't seem to put it back. This is when you get a list of
suggested names in the to field. Help!
Sent from my iPhone
On 2013-04-25, at 11:39 PM, David Chittenden <[email protected]> wrote:
And here we have some of the problems. Advertisers are constantly seeking
visual methods to draw the eye of people away from the main content of the page
over to their advertisements. Web authors are trying to keep the person's eyes
on the page material, yet allowing the ads to help cover the costs of the page
and maybe make a profit. Designs and techniques are constantly changing, so it
is impossible for automatic systems to keep up with the ever-changing
variability.
The standard screen reader response is to somehow script specific complex
webpages (Jaws) or flag and otherwise mark-up aspects of webpages. Aria is a
system that web developers can use which has been accepted by the screen
readers. However, most web developers will probably never use it any more than
they have ever used accessibility techniques in the past. We are a tiny
minority, so most never think our accessibility needs. Though I would love to
see it be otherwise, I am a realist. We are way beneath the average
web-developer's notice, so it will most likely always be an uphill battle.
Consider it this way. How many of you who make podcasts create written
transcriptions of your podcast for the deaf? I have seen very few. You probably
never thought of the fact that you are discriminating against the deaf exactly
the same way with your podcast that sighted people are discriminating against
you with inaccessible web pages. Oh, and if your podcast were for certain
governmental information websites, you would be required to make the podcast
information accessible to everyone, including those who are deaf. In other
words, you would need to sit down and transcribe everything that is said in the
podcast, and place it alongside the podcast so the deaf can have equal access.
For me, at least, it takes several hours to transcribe a half hour interview. I
am a slow typist.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: [email protected]
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone
On 26/04/2013, at 13:04, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote:
The results of these studies on how the blind work with web sites surprise me a
bit, but I wonder how much of this goes back to how JAWS presents web content
to the JAWS user. Even so, I distinctly recall using the JAWS cursor with web
pages to explore how they're laid out and how they appear to sighted users. I
did this even more frequently when JAWS allowed for alternate web page
presentations, and I started using a screen reader like Orca which doesn't
change the lay out of the page much at all. I don't recall how much NVDA
manipulates the presentation of the web. It would be interesting to know the
results of these studies with blind people who predominantly use Orca instead
of JAWS.
I do think it'll always take the blind a bit longer to digest information on a
web page than it will for sighted users. Just as I can't take in a list of
email messages at a glance, focusing in on the unread messages based on colors,
or automatically jump to the interesting part of a spread sheet, I'm not going
to be able to follow the visual queues on a web page directing the sighted user
to the pertinent portion of the web page. Ironically, I think screen reader
technology is going to have to help fill in the gap here, which may focus more
on the type of content on a web page and less on the visual layout.
On 04/25/2013 07:26 PM, David Chittenden wrote:
Like I said, I can reliably reproduce the problem by briefly hesitating before
performing the gesture. Otherwise, I never experience the problem, even on
webpages.
Specific to webpages, when the webpage is large and in multiple columns,
headings very easily jump when what I describe happens. This is because the
multi-columns are not linear like we blind people perceive them. Your first
heading may be near the top on the left side of the display. Your next heading
may be near the bottom of the left side. Your third heading may be one-third
the way down in the middle of the display. Your next heading may be half way
down the middle of the display. Your next heading may be at the bottom of the
middle of the display. Your final four headings may be spaced along the column
on the right-hand side of the display. So, using a vertical flick set to
headings, with just a little hesitation before the flick, can cause your
headings to jump seemingly unpredictably, whilst attempting to navigate the
display. Consider that you hesitate between headings whilst deciding whether to
move to the next heading, and your finger is closer to the display than you
thin
k.
From various studies, we know that, based on how windows screen readers have
always presented information in a serial manner, blind people perceive web
pages as being long columns of text on the left side of the web page.
One study set a tactile button in the middle of the computer screen a little
below the centre. Using a tactile mouse, blind people, and sighted people under
blindfold, tried to locate and click on the button. The sighted people took a
fair amount of time to locate the tactile button. Over half the blind people
were unable to locate the tactile button. Whilst the sighted people explored
the web page from side to side, top to bottom, the blind people stayed on the
left edge of the display and kept searching up and down in the left side only.
This is very significant as it shows how blind people mentally visualise and
comprehend webpages.
Another study used eye-tracking equipment to assess exactly how sighted people
determine relevance of webpages, and compared this with blind people. The vast
majority of websites display link bars / tool bars down the left side, across
the top, and down the right side of the page. the main text of the page is in
the middle, surrounded by these bars. The sighted person first looks at the two
or three links in the upper left corner of the page. They then look at the main
text of the page. Only after that do they go back and look at the other link
bars. Because the screen reader goes from left to right, top to bottom, in a
serial, linear manner, and because all the link bars start above the main text
area, the blind person must go through all the bars first. This creates the
mental impression that everything is on the left side above the text. This
visualisation is subconscious, and it is what we do automatically.
Since I've learned all of this from my research, I have been using my iPhone to
retrain my mental visualisation of webpages to make it similar to what sighted
people perceive. I no longer start at the beginning of the webpage. I touch the
display and find where the actual text starts. I also slowly explore the page
to find multiple columns of text. When I am ready to start reading, I use a
two-finger flick down to read from my current location. This is, in fact one of
the biggest reasons I want an iPad. I want to better train myself on fully
understanding the visual lay-out of webpages so I can better and more quickly
find information the way sighted people do (considering that websites are
designed for the sighted, and relatively few will ever be designed for the
blind given that we are one of the smallest minorities of people around).
Besides, it will greatly improve my research skills.
Oh, I almost forgot, sighted people were found to assess a webpage for
relevance usually within 5 seconds. It took blind people 10 seconds to three
minutes just to find the information on familiar webpages.
Finally, title and author information for these studies is available upon
request. Unfortunately, I cannot provide the actual text as it is copyrighted.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: [email protected]
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone
On 26/04/2013, at 11:34, "Raul A. Gallegos" <[email protected]> wrote:
It is very odd for sure. I have never seen this problem on my 4S. I have over
300 contacts in my phone of the same model and have never experienced this
problem. So Innoway I am glad to know that others are having this issue even
though it is annoying.
---
Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or auto
complete errors.
On Apr 25, 2013, at 5:57 PM, "Neal Ewers" <[email protected]> wrote:
I have actually had my wife who has vision look at my contacts because I at
first thought there was something wrong with them because the letter
headings did not match up with the names of the contacts. They looked fine
to her, so I assumed it was a voiceover problem. Nice to have more
clarification on this.
Neal
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Cristóbal
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts
This has to do with the headings bug mentioned in earlier messages. It's
annoying as all get out.
You'll find it in other apps such as Safari when visiting webpages with lots
of headings. VO gets placed all over the place when trying to swipe through.
Oddly enough though, the NFB Newsline app seems to work fine.
I wrote Apple about this the other day and I actually got a response
particular to my message and not just the standard "We appreciate your
message and will forward it to the proper department." Or some such.
They said that they were aware of the problem and were investigating it, but
could not say more beyond that. So basically we have to wait for a fix if at
all in the next iOS release.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:31 PM
To: ViPhone List
Subject: An oddity with contacts
Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is
experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts
list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way
the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first
name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is
if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next
contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to
the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that
start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness
there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P,
H. So it is as if things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out
of turn, I touch the screen to see what is there and the correct contact for
the letter it is supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me
that voiceover is actually speaking different letters in the headings for
the categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example above the
G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G
are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure
what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left
flicking instead of right flicking, but that's not the case.
---
Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or
auto complete errors.
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chaltain at Gmail
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